Jonah The Disobedient Prophet: KiP - Episode 113

A prophet serves as a messenger of God's truth, and Jonah embraced this role. However, when entrusted with a divine message for the people of Nineveh, he defied his calling. Instead of delivering the message, Jonah rebelled and fled to Tarshish, seeking distance from both Nineveh and God. Could Jonah's reluctance stem from a deep hatred toward the Ninevites for their wicked actions against his people, the Jews? Was he unwilling to witness God's mercy being extended to them? We explore this and more in this episode.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

What up what up what up What's up what's up? Good to be back with the fellas. Yo, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_08 0:11

Oh, we gotta start off right.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

Holy, holy, holy.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Let me know when you're gonna do the singing, man.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

I let you know when I say hold Mike.

SPEAKER_08 0:50

Chill, bro. Great? Yeah, you don't think it's not the mic. I sound like a wet cat getting run over by a truck. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

You know who got a great voice? My boy Marcos. Sup kid. Hold holla.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

I won't day one. Nice. Yeah, you gotta stop stomping the ground too. That's not Brooklyn. Get out of the city, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yo, look, look, somebody looking down upon me now.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

How come you roll that up?

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Do a little country living. Got a couple burners now and I need a big boot up.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Welcome to the number part.

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Are we back to the number? Yeah, we just we just we don't gotta use kill. Let's go back to normal partners. We don't only uh chore. No, it's not that. We don't we just we don't need no separation no more, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, it's just poor guys. Poor guys that open up the Bible, we read it, we talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Um Yeah, we actually open up the Bible and read it.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah, we want people to do the same.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

That's it. Open up your Bible.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Um the word of God is truth, and you know, all of creation was made just by him talking. So imagine what he could do in your life um through his word. So that's that's kind of what why we do it. Yes, sir. And just to take up gigabytes on the interweb on YouTube.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Yo, man, it's free. It's free, it's free. Check yeah, we say yo, what up everybody, man?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

How's everybody doing, man? Get Ralph looking studious because he didn't study. I'm always at last minute. Last minute cramming. Last minute cramming.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

I live off last minute cramming. Wow. And what's good? Chilling, baby. Everything good. God is good. Got me set up nice, you know, work and everything. So nice. Everything's good, man. Mike, I'm blessed.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Blessed. Still. I'm blessed.

SPEAKER_06 3:29

Especially after the year, you know. It's the end of the year. You know what I'm saying? We had a we had a uh rocky year as people, but I'm blessed, man. God has seen me through, and I'm at a point where I'm just grateful. I think that's my word of the year. Like I'm everything that God has uh done for me, I'm very, very grateful. And the more the more I give him praise and the more grateful I am, the more joy comes into my life. You know what I mean? I got hope, I got the word, I've been saved, I've been, you know, I'm being sanctified. Like God is with me. You know, and I know who he is, I have a relationship with him, and I'm grateful for that. And all of that, I just think I'm starting to see the fruits of that, of being grateful. I think we live in a world where there's a lot of entitlement, a lot of ingratitude. People are not grateful for what they have and you know where they're at. But I mean, I'm trying to be more grateful. That's that's my goal.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

That should be the attitude of of uh believers, right? I think Ephesians talk about that. Just being grateful for salvation. Like we have we have a hope, we have a future. So, you know, whether it's 2023, 2024, is that podcast is gonna start right? See, we're rusty, we're a little rusty. That's what happens when we don't crack this mic.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

That makes me think of like uh what Mike was saying, just like his mercies are new every morning, right? And when you wake up and sometimes I feel bad, like, man, I gotta use those mercies again. You know what I mean? Because you done messed up the day before, and it's like, Lord, one of these days I don't want to have to use those mercies. But it's like Did this guy just admit he messed up? Yo, he does but Noah doesn't say he doesn't say the mercies are new every you know every now and then, right? He says no, they new every morning, you know. So that's that's what I'm grateful for, man.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Nice. That's good.

SPEAKER_08 5:41

Yeah, grateful for the word. Grateful that we've been justified, sanctified, and glorified, man. That is that is wonderful. Like you said, you guys said it best, man. Just that is wonderful. Um, especially, you know, coming from where we came from and like being in a church that we were um saved in, where we were discipled in, and we had men pour into our lives. Shout out to Horizon Christian Fellowship. Most definitely. You know, these men, like, they really poured into our lives. And I I and I'm just saying, like, for example, I had a a great experience um a few weeks ago. Um, me and my daughter went to buy some food at this uh local restaurant, and I'm walking out, I saw this young, young, young dude walking out. So as I'm walking, I always have tracks in my pocket. So I said, Hey, you got one of these? He's like, No, what's that? I said, Yo, it's about Jesus. You know, I passed it over to him, and I said, He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Jesus. I I I know him. I you I said, Oh, you're a believer? He said, Yeah, yeah. I said, So you're a Christian? He's like, Yes, I'm a Christian. I was like, so you've been born again. He's like, uh, yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. Um, he's like, yeah, I go to the store. And he pointed to one of the churches that's down, you know, it's a local Baptist church. He's like, yeah, my grandfather's an elder there, dah dah, dah, dah. You'll give me the whole rundown. I was like, oh, that's great. I was like, so that means if you die today, you'll go to heaven. Yeah, because I'm gonna push it. I'm just not gonna accept that you say I'm a Christian. You know, I was like, because I don't know. Everybody's a Christian. Everybody's a Christian, you know? So he's like, I think so. I was like, what do you mean you think so? So okay, if you do go in, if you go to heaven, why would the why would God let you in? He's like, uh, you know, and immediately I already knew what he was gonna say, just by him pondering. He's like, yeah, because I did more good than bad. Works based. Works based. And mind you, you know, grew up going to a local Baptist church. I mean, nothing wrong against, you know, nothing against that or anything. I, you know, they're they're believers, but it's just that you can easily go to a church, sit there, warm up the pews, and not be saved. Amen. You know, and that's when I had to kind of like explain to him. And then I I I mean I gave him a simple example, and we we spoke about this, you know, when we discussed Romans, and I asked him, Um, so you work, because he works at the local hospital, and he was like, I said, so if you work hard all week and your boss don't pay you, what happens? He was like, I'll be upset. I was like, why? He's like, because he owes me. I was like, ah, exactly. Your boss owes you, so your boss is in debt to you. He's like, Yeah, yeah. So if I work, he has to pay me. I was like, you're 100% right. That is exactly the reason why you cannot work yourself into heaven. Because you're saying that God owes you. I did this work, I gave to the poor, I read my Bible three times this week, I prayed four times a day. So that means God owes me for me to get into heaven. I was like, the creator of heaven and earth cannot owe you. Nice. That's a good way to put it, yeah. You know, he created you, that's why he gave it to you by grace. That's a that's why it has to be through faith, you know, by grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, so that no man can boast. You know, he can't owe you anything. Nice, you know, and and I saw it, that it clicked in his eyes, like he was like, yo, like he's never heard it, you know, placed that way. That is, you know, that's why we're saved by faith alone and not by works. You know, and and I thank God it's like just because you know, that he's blessed us, you know, with you know, with men in our lives and us, you know, constantly going through the word, that we're able to explain things clearly so that other people can understand. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

So what do you have to do to be saved?

SPEAKER_08 9:36

Believe. That's it. It's that simple.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Believe on Jesus Christ because you can't save yourself. And you know, that's something that Jesus Christ commissioned, you know, his his church, his people to do. And we're gonna read about a man that was commissioned to do something, um, but he rebelled. And I'm talking about Jonah at first.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

Ooh. At first he rebelled. Debatable, debatable. At first he rebelled.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

So yeah, we gotta get into Jonah. Um minor prophet? Yes. Would he be considered one of the minor prophets?

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Yeah. Um I mean the book is short. That's why that's why he's a minor prophet.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

And that's why we're doing it, because it's short.

SPEAKER_06 10:34

He's probably one of the most, he probably is one of the most famous prophets.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

He was actually the only successful prophet. All the other prophets flopped.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

Flopped in what sense?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Like no revival.

SPEAKER_06 10:48

Oh, as far as salvation. Oh okay, that's what you said. The only one.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Jeremiah, all of them. Right. It was nobody was trying to hit him. Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

As far as dealing with the people. What about John the Baptist? Now that's yeah, he's still part of the brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

No, no, not even him. Well, we he had followers.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Yeah, he had followers, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

He was the greatest. Jesus said.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

No, no, no. Yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, I think we'll we'll we'll get into it, but we we're talking about Old Testament?

SPEAKER_04 11:24

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

I think we'll get into it. But I think John the Baptist is different. I understand what you're saying, but he might have been different.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Alright. Um yeah, but this is a good book, man. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

So where are we gonna start? What we're gonna start we'll start at one.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

That's usually that's usually a good place to start. You know, starting at five would have been a little confusing.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Yo, but shout out shout out to the people who's still there watching, man. Say say hello to us, write to us, let us know what the Lord is doing in your life, man.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

People trying to get by, B.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

They don't got no time to write to you.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Say hello to the peep. Say hello to the boys. They don't got no time to write to you. People trying to get by out here.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Alright, so let's yo man, let's just jump into it. Jonah.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

There you go, one, two, three. Let's do it. Yeah. Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah, the son of Amitai, saying, Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it, for their wickedness has come up before me. But Jonah arose to flee to Tarshus from the presence of the Lord. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshus. So he paid the fare and went down into it, to go with them to Tarshus from the presence of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Alright, so who was Jonah? Well, like, who was he?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

I mean, we already said it.

SPEAKER_08 13:04

Well, one of the things I mean, like, uh, I mean, just a little bit of background, like he is they claim um he might have been writing around the 8th century BC. Um uh during the reign of King Jeroboam the second. He was uh contemporary of Hosea and and Amos. Um so and he was predominantly uh prophesying towards the the well, he was a prophet dealing with the kingdom of Israel.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

So and what's a prophet?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Like just basic, you know, stuff so that you know somebody that's listened to this might not understand. We say prophet, but like what was the duties or the function of a prophet?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

I think um the basic sense is just uh someone who the Lord anoints to to to bring the word of God to the people. That's it. I think it's simple. It's just God speaks through those people, through prophets.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, and they they would speak God's truth to others.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

That's you know, basically simple way of uh defining what a prophet is.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Um you think there's you think there's prophets here now? Yeah, there's some on church I've there's a whole bunch on church I've showed and Bedford and Nostwin. There's some on new group and no newcomer.

SPEAKER_06 14:33

I threw the alley. I'm the one who threw it up, baby. I know exactly where you was going because I know exactly how your mind.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

And that's the that's you know, a lot of people throw that title around. Right. And you know, with prophets, sometimes you there'd be two aspects. It would be some type of teaching and uh uh like a revealing, right? So they would deal with contemporary issues to the people, and sometimes the things that they would say would have you know so future prophetic warnings in it. But basically they would speak God's truth to others and to the people, and that's it. Right. So now, do uh are there prophets now since you brought that up?

SPEAKER_06 15:19

Yes. I do believe so.

SPEAKER_08 15:22

You do? Yeah, of course, why not? I think well, I think the main thing is like because there's there's two things there's foretelling and there's forth telling. So a lot of people, when the second you hear profit, the first thing they think of is foretelling. Oh, you're foreseeing the future of what's about to befall the person, a group, a nation, or what have you, right? But the the most the common use the the use of the word is actually forth telling. Like you said, a person that's like you you brought out, the person that's speaking the truth of God, you know, like what we see when when um Saul first got anointed and he was prophesying, right? When he you know became king, what he was saying the truth of God, that you know, there's one and only true God, you know, the God of Israel. When so when you read that whole thing, he was prophesying, you know, because you're telling the truth of who God is, and how he revealed himself through the word of God.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

All right, so do we need specific people to do that now?

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Absolutely not. No, I believe it's a gift of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

No, no, but the actual function when we read in Hebrews and it talks about we have the full revelation of God and his word.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

No, no, no, not in that sense. No, not at all. Uh not in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And I think Ephesians it speaks about the foundation of the church was built on the prophets. So now the question because early church didn't have didn't have the Bible. Right. As we do now. Right, correct. So it could be something that's not needed because we have the full revelation of God.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Just like apostles. Same thing. Wow. Yeah, but there are no uh actual like apostle, like the office of the apostle is no longer in existence.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

No, I don't I don't agree with that, no. No people use that title, you know, because I don't know. Yeah, it's fancy. So yeah, I I don't believe that in in the in this sense in the actual definition of the actual definition there's no apostles or prophets in the modern day we have the full revelation of God through his word. If we're going by that definition, then everybody's a prophet, right? Right? If you're if you're speaking the truth of the word, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Everybody can sort of prophesy, right? If you're reading the word of God to to people, you know, but that office, but the office of an actual prophet, do you think it's a gift?

SPEAKER_06 17:49

Do you think there's certain people who have that gift of prophesying?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah, yeah. But that I don't I don't think that makes you a prophet. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

Really, the gift of prophecy, which could you could have in the sense of what we're talking about, like in the sense of Jonah and like that sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

You understand what we're saying you had prophets in the old testament and you had early prophets in the early church, individuals that they're that's that that was their function. I don't I don't believe that we have that now. But the gift of prophecy, right? I do believe in that gift of the city. The Holy Spirit Um imparts uh a word to somebody to say something to somebody else, yes, I do believe the gifts are still here and active. Yes, but that doesn't make if you if the Holy Spirit, you know, um imparts something in your heart to share, a word of prophecy, I don't believe that makes you a prophet. Makes you a prophet, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:46

That's what you're doing. But what if he does it consistently in your life and uses you to give these words? These words of nothing. Yeah, I still don't, I still don't.

SPEAKER_06 18:55

I mean, you have the gift. I believe you have the gift for prophesying, but that'll make a difference. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

So why would that not make you a prophet?

SPEAKER_06 19:04

Because again, we have the whole counsel of God. Yeah. Like, like in the sense of what these prophets would, like the word you understand what I'm saying? That's why we're we're we're giving it in the sense of what a prophet is scriptures.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Whatever prophecy you're sharing, it has to be confirmed in the word. Right, it's not nothing.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Nothing new outside of the word, it's nothing new.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

No, no, but I get I get that. There's no new revelations of the word of God. Right. But there are, I think sometimes the Lord will use people to tell a specific person, hey, this is about to happen to you. I mean that happens all the time. Do this if the Lord is warning you, like, so I don't see why if the Lord uses that consistently in that person and he has the gift, why is he not a prophet?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

No, because you'd be saying something that is probably in the book of Proverbs. Just wisdom. Like if you go do this, this is what's gonna happen. I mean, not necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

I think that there is still like I mean you're saying something specific. Someone, I guess the Lord used someone years ago when I first gave my heart to the Lord to prophesy into my life, and he told me things that no one knew that were true and and wound up coming to fruition, right? They weren't specifically from scripture, though. Like so, what I'm saying is I don't know if the Lord uses this person like that all the time, but at that point he did. But there there have to be people, born-again Christians, who the Lord uses like that, uses in that fashion consistently. So what I'm saying is why they're not foretelling you know anything biblical, but if the Lord is telling, go tell this person over there not to do this or do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

That's not so this is the tricky part it has to be the word of God because you could go to some tarot reader and they could do the same thing, right? Because it happens all the time, so that's why prophets there they were revealing God's truth. You're talking about a person is able to tell you something that happens to you, yeah, and it has nothing to do with with the word of God. Now, that can be from God.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

But a prophet is revealing God's truth. So that's the reason I said now, since we have the full counsel of God, what need would there be for a prophet? Because if somebody's saying, if somebody's revealing God's truth, you have to go back and be like, let me see. And confirm it with verify what you're saying, which everybody should do, by the way. Right. Whatever church you go to, if the pastor is up there on the pulpit, you better go verify what he's saying.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Be a Barean.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

I agree with what you're saying. The Lord could reveal something in a person to reveal to somebody else to help him. Because the Lord, you know, he could do whatever he wants and he does that. Yeah. But I wouldn't put that in the category of a prophecy because. You know, dark forces can do that also. You understand what I'm saying? I mean I'm not saying what the person did for you was dark. That's not what I'm saying. But this that's but I'm saying I think the standard of God's word and being able to verify it is what differentiates the example that you gave from you know the definition that we're trying to spend 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I guess I get what you're saying, but there's a lot of people out there who call themselves prophet, prophets, and apostles. I don't believe the office of apostle exists because of the specifics that you have to be, which was to see Jesus face to face. But I don't know. I'm I'm I'm a little bit up in the air about the prophet. If you're if you're coming at people and saying I'm prophet so-and-so, I don't take you serious. Why not? A lot of people do that. Because I want the the Holy Spirit to put it in my spirit that this person is coming from him and and what he's saying is true. What if he does? Oh, well then then I'll believe what the person's saying. Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

But do would you believe would you think would you call him a prophet?

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Um it depends on how the Lord uses him consistently. I feel like if if it's a if the Lord can use a donkey one time, I'm not gonna call the donkey a prophet. Right. But if it if a person has the gift, to me, I don't see what is so wrong about calling him a prophet. Okay. I'm just no no no, we understand. Yeah, we get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_06 23:29

Alright. So Jonah was a prophet.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Jonah was a prophet. Um and in the first verse, what what did uh what does it say?

SPEAKER_04 23:40

The word of the Lord came to him. The word of the Lord. How do you think it came to him? So I was I was thinking that too. You think he was um audible? Yeah, do you think he was sitting there probably in prayer?

SPEAKER_06 23:55

Or what'd you think? What'd you think? How do you think the word of the Lord came to him? I've always wondered that, like a lot of times when you know you're reading through the old testament, it says the word of the Lord came to say the word of the Lord. I'm wondering how how did it come? Christophany?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

It could have been audible voice, it could have been an impression in his heart. Right. It doesn't specify, but it could have been any of those things.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Right. You think it was the Lord Himself?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

If it was a Christophany, it it would have I don't I don't believe in this particular instance it was a Christophany, but I want I probably however he however he imp put that impression on him, it was clear right, he knew that it was from the Lord, he knew the message. Um but but I think the point was a message from the Lord came. Like this is God's word, God's truth came to him. And his job was to get up and go to Nineveh and proclaim God's word. God's word is the truth.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

So that's that's what a prophet is, that's what he does.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Um you was about to say something? Um no no no. So okay, let's let's let's talk about Nineveh.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Nineveh was the uh the capital, right, of Assyria.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Capital of Assyria.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Syria was was that that nation at this time, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

They were they were ruling, they were the world power, conquering um a lot of a lot of nearby places. What were they known for?

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Cruelty.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Very cruel, very cruel. Um uh Nineveh, the location would be modern-day Iraq now. So the area where Iraq is right now, that was the general area of Nineveh, and like Anne says, that was the capital of the Syrian Empire.

SPEAKER_08 26:07

Let me read a quick thing on um Nahum wrote also wrote about um Nineveh. If it's in Nahum chapter three, verse one through four. It says, Woe to the bloody city, all full of lies and robbery, his victims never departs, the noise of a whip and the noise of rattling wheels, of galloping horses, of clattering chariots, three horsemen, horsemen charged with bright swords and glittering spear. There is a multitude of slain, a great number of bodies, countless corpse. They stumble over the corpse because of the multitude of harlotries of the seductive harlot, the mistress of sorceries, who sells nations through her harlotries and families through her sorceries. Wow. So that was just a description of Nineveh, um, that Naeum gave.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah. And our archaeological finds actually show inscription describing their cruelty. So it I I wrote some of it down, like dismembering, skinning people, decapitating, impaling, burning their victims, dismembering of the genitals. So they actually they they used to actually write it on the wall, like describing the the cruelty they used to do to their enemies.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

I read that um like when they were going to war with other you know places, um people the prisoners would literally kill themselves before allowing them to become captive because of what they would do to them. Like they would commit suicide.

SPEAKER_08 27:45

Yeah, there used to be mass suicides, like the second they hear Assyrians are coming, then there will be large groups of people just committing suicide. Because in fact, this is there's records of them like with the whole skinning. When they used to take off their skin, they used to cover the walls with their skin of yeah, with the skins of the people. They used to put like hooks through their nose and drag them through the city by their nose. And I mean they were beyond it.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Right to instill fear on their enemies, and that's just a practice that they got very good at. It was bad homes, very bad homes.

SPEAKER_06 28:22

And they said it was a great city, like it was also rich. Yeah, yeah. Like, understand these guys were pillaging and plundering nations, so there was a lot of wealth there, you know. So they were known for their wealth and just the city. It was a great city, it was big, there's a lot going on, you know. You would think probably uh New York City on steroids. No, we'll talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:49

But this was before I think they got into full power. Because this was like when it was written, I think they say that uh the record was around 790. Well, ranging from around 800 BC to about 750, I think, some of the different dates. But Assyria came into full power around um 733 BC. That's when they actually took the kingdom of um the northern kingdom into captivity. Okay, yeah, it was around at 733 BC. So this was before it was like a complete before so they were in the incline. Yeah, they were in the incline in this.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

What do you guys think when it says because they're evil has come to my attention in verse 2? What do you guys think of that? Like the Lord is like, get up, right? Giving giving giving giving him his directives. Like, you know, get up, go to Nineveh. Did we mention that they were like the enemies of Israel?

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Like the Assyrians and Israel just enemies, they did not like each other.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

I think the Lord um I think it gets to a point where his grace and his mercy kind of runs out.

SPEAKER_06 30:01

And we see that with um, we saw that with Sodom and Gomorrah. It's the same thing where he told Abraham, he was like, Let me go to the city to see, you know, the like the wickedness that had came up to my throne. Let me see if it's really what what what what um I'm hearing about it. You know, I want to verify it myself. That's why he sent the angels to go forth. And it's the same thing with Egypt. It's like when he's dealing with nations, there's a time where he gives them, he gives them this time to repent. He gives them this time. Like the Lord is very patient, he's very merciful, and he's full of grace. So I think it's at this point, he's like, that level of wickedness has reached my throne. I think is the Lord, his timetable when he's dealing with judgment is morally. It's not really a time thing. You understand what I'm saying? So that's why he's like, they wickedness has reached my throne, it's time for judgment.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

No, you know what's interesting, and I was gonna bring that up. When he was talking to Abraham, he kind of said the same thing, right? He was dealing with Abraham and he kind of gave him the prophecy of what's gonna happen to you. You're gonna have a lot of kids, your kids are gonna go into Egypt, and they're gonna be captive, and they're gonna be treated cruelly. Right. And then, you know, afterwards, you know, I'm gonna deliver them and they're gonna go into the land um for 400 years until the the sins of the Amorites. The sins of the Amorites are full. Right, right. So in that instance, he had a time limit, but it was 400 years. That's a long time, right? Right. So when you think about that grace, um, the patience of God, him, you know, you know, pleading with with people, him pleading with nations to get right. And hey, there's gonna be a point where my perfect judgment is going to have to be executed. You know what I'm saying? But he's a God that sits on um the mercy seat. So his natural disposition is mercy and grace, but he's also just and sin can't go unpunished. And there's a point where you're gonna get, you know, God the executor of justice. You know what I'm saying? And we we're seeing that now, and he and he kind of told them, you know, like go and cry out to them, protest against what they're doing. So this is even a warning. This is not like he's not hitting the gavel saying, oh, it's a rap. This is like your go, y'all, they probably still have some time. You know, go warn them because yeah, y'all making a lot of noise, and I'm hearing it up here, which is kind of funny. Because it, you know, it says it came to my attention. Like the Lord knows everything that's happening all the time. You can't hide anything from the Lord, but just the way he speaks is.

SPEAKER_06 32:59

I think it's like like you said, it's like it's getting loud. Right. Like it's it's getting to a point where I can't just sit here and watch it. I'm gonna have to intervene. Right. I got I have to intervene. And that's that's basically what he's really saying. Like, yo, you you guys are making a lot of noise. Where it's you gotta think, like the Lord's throne is where? It's like far, far, far away. He's like, it's done reached up here. That's so he's basically, I think he's kind of quantifying, you know, yeah, how wicked you guys are, like to the point where my throne is far away from you guys and it's reaching up here. The body count is increasing, right? The body count is at that point where it's reaching up here, and you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Like in my mind, like you, I envision like those in heaven, the angels, like looking at the Lord like like you're gonna let that go. You know, like it's that bad. But then I also look on the other hand, like if this wickedness arose like um like a stench to him, like our prayers, our worship, you know, also reaches the heavens, and it's a beautiful scent to him, right? So, you know, keep praying, keep worshiping God because he's he sees it and it blesses him to see his people do that for him. Yeah. Um, I like here the verse 2, literally, like it says, Arise. Like I just see God see I I picture this dude just being lazy or whatever, but there are there are scriptures, other scriptures that you know point to him putting in work for the Lord. Um, but for whatever reason, you know, the Lord was like, listen, arise. Like, can you imagine God just telling you something? Like, go and do this, and then you run the other way. I do it all the time.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

We do it all the time. There's so many times the Lord will put impressions on your heart, the Holy Spirit will tell you to do something, and you you fill your life with distractions. That's you running the other way, man. And it's even crazier, bro.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And to Andre's point, like this guy, like your fam, this is your job.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Yeah. This is his office, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Like, you know, like they had they they like they had a different role. Like prophets had a different role. And he and the more yo, I was reading about Jonah. I was like, yo, Jonah, you a funny guy, man.

SPEAKER_06 35:18

Nah, baby. Nah, nah, yeah, nah. Yo, B.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Jonah was off.

SPEAKER_06 35:24

No, no, no. I'm not trying to say like Jonah wasn't off. But where it came from, dog, he he. So where did it come from? He was emotional. We're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into it. Let's not give it all away.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

So God tell them, like, listen, you know, the evil has come to my attention. So, yo, this is reaching the tipping point. Um, you know, their sin is almost almost to the max. Right. And when that happened, then judgment has to be exact on that situation. Right.

SPEAKER_06 35:57

He and he he bounced. He went total the total other direction.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

So he went the total other direction. So why? Why do you think he bounced?

SPEAKER_04 36:07

He's gonna get into it. So we read the first three already? Yeah, we read up to three.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Read three again.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

But Jonah arose to flee to Tarshus from the presence of the Lord. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish. So he paid the fare and went down into it to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the Lord. Yeah, that's that's what he wanted to do, escape the presence of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

So Nineveh is northeast, about five hundred miles.

SPEAKER_07 36:39

Yeah, about five hundred miles.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

This guy was trying to go to Tarshish. Which is about 1,500 from where he's staying, but which it's like the tip of Spain or something. Right. So in his mind, he was like, yo, I'm about to go to the farthest place we can, away from the direction that I'm supposed to go in. That you're telling me to go to. Right, right, right. Definitely. No, that's that's exactly what happened. God, creator of heaven and earth, clearly, there was no confusion. Told them, get up, go this way. He got up and he went the other way. Yep. Totally opposite direction. And my my question is like, why do you think he did that? Hatred.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Hatred.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Of the people.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Yeah, it was emotion.

SPEAKER_06 37:32

There's a lot of emotions involved when it came to the Assyrians, because like we said, they were cruel people. It wasn't like they were people he didn't know. Like he knew exactly who he was sent to go and preach this message to. And he was like, I'm not, I don't want to preach it to them. Dude, he hated them. He hated it. It wasn't emotional. No.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Because we could see the type of duty is later on. Like, and he just straight up defied God. It was emotional. He wasn't scared of dying. He's he had a hatred for these people. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_08 38:02

And not just hatred, if you think about it, also, is that we're seeing that um majority of prophets usually prophesied to the nation. Like if you see his contemporaries were were Amos and Hosea, and they were constantly dealing with the kings. Like, for example, he was living during the time of Jeroboam II, and like they were prophesying against Jeroboam because Jeroboam was falling off, you know, serving idols. But Amos and all these guys were prophesying against Jeroboam, tell them to get right. I mean, um, Jonah was there, he wasn't saying anything, you know what I'm saying? But the whole thing is that the prophets usually prophesy to the to the nation, you know, whether it be to the northern kingdom or the southern kingdom. Here comes Jonah, and God says, Yo, go to your go go to your enemies, right? Go go go to them. It's like, yo, dude, we're we're Jews. I'm a national loyalist. I deal with my people, and you're telling me to go to them, the pagans, I hate them. Right. You know, and I think that's the bottom line. I mean, you know, you hear other people, you know, some people say it's it's fear and all nah. No, it was racism.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Did he have reason? Did he have reason?

SPEAKER_06 39:10

I mean, yeah, but it was it was emotions involved. Whether it was all of that, but again, he knew who the Assyrians were. Right. You know, he knew he knew they track record. And in his mind, he's like, no. He made a decision where he's like, God, I hear what you're telling me, but me, my will, no. I don't I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

So in 2 Kings 14 25, it says he rebuilt Israel's coastline from the entrance of Hammoth as far as the Sea of Arabah. And this is Jeroboam II, in accordance with the message from the Lord God of Israel that he spoke through his servant Jonah the prophet, Amita's son, who was from Gath Hepha. So, exactly what you said, right? Job Jeroboam II was an evil king, like he was the worst. Um, but you know, the word came to Jonah. Jonah prophesied to the king, and morally that king was the worst, but politically he was successful because he was able to expand the land, regain some land, um maybe close to what David had, right, you know, back then. So the point you just brought up in his mind, he's probably like, listen, why am I not talking to my people so we could get out of this mess? Right. You know, these people they are enemies. They're trying to kill us. You see what they're doing. You telling me to go over there? No, I'm out. I mean He was a Hebrew nationalist. Could you blame? Could you blame the guy?

SPEAKER_08 40:46

And the funny thing is his name means Dove, Jonah. Dove. Dove. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

So, you know, this guy leaves. Um, rebellion. Yep. So now we see a conflict of wills. Yep. Like you said, the Lord's will, and he's like, nah. I'm out. I don't want to be part of this situation. I'm not gonna do it. Matter of fact, I'm gonna try to escape from you, from your presence. I'm gonna go as far away as possible. Maybe you'll leave me alone with this. Right?

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Yeah, he was he was delusional at this time. For whatever reason, the Lord highlights that he paid his own fare. And you see, I see that as just us trying to do things on our do things in our own strength. You know, like this, he wasn't in the will of God. You know, he paid for it to get on the boat. And, you know, a lot of the times we we do things like similar to that, and sometimes we think it's the it's the will of God, you know, but we don't have that proper discernment.

SPEAKER_08 41:51

And you know, that's a great point that you're you're bringing when you says that where you think uh it's the will of God and it's not, we don't have the proper discernment, is that when you do start running away from God and being disobedient, right? Not only you're gonna pay for it, right? Um, you're gonna pay dearly with consequences, but on top of it, is that Satan will have a boat ready for you. Now you think you're in the will of God, but he will give you that opportunity for you to go away from God. Yeah. You know, and you know, he'll he'll set it up perfectly. You'll think, oh, these are open doors. Look, the boat was there waiting for me. You know, I have the money in my pocket, but no, you're in direct disobedience, and Satan's gonna be right there to capitalize on it for you to go against God, for you to fall.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Exactly. So Satan knew Satan knows the the grace and the mercy of God as well, right? That's right. He didn't want those those wicked people who served him for a living to repent.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

You know, so he was like, Oh, hop on his boat. Yeah, and and you know, this is a prophet, he knew the word of God. Psalms 139 7 says, Where can I flee from your spirit? Or where will I run from your presence? If I rise to heaven, there you are. If I lay down with the dead, there you are. If I take wings with the dawn and settle down on the western horizon, your hand will guide me there too, while your right hand keeps me a firm grip on me. He knew this. And later on he says stuff to point to the fact, like, dog, you know God's character, you know who he is. He knows so now you're you're just seeing straight up rebellion. Yeah, that's it. From a prophet of God, um disobedience, you know what I'm saying? No, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do what I want. I'm gonna do my will.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

I think this the his disobedience was next level, not the same thing like us. Why? Why do you think it's the dispensation? I mean, first of all, I think we we live in in the dispensation of grace, and you don't see the Lord just destroying people like he did back then. Like he was the could you know he's he's the same yesterday, today, and and forever, don't get me wrong, but he would do things back then. In to to prove his point. And for this dude who was a prophet who saw the Lord put in work, for him to straight up just go the opposite way, like, I don't know. I think his disobedience was on a whole nother level.

SPEAKER_08 44:16

I see what you're saying, but I mean you you do see a lot, lots of people, like, for example, um, that have the same character in terms of I see Christians that can't forgive, like, you know, they have a terrible father, terrible mother, and they can't forgive them.

SPEAKER_06 44:35

That's the same thing. Same thing. You get you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 44:38

I'm not saying the hearts are different. I'm saying that the Lord isn't gonna strike that person. Yeah, no, no, right, right. No, no, yeah, I get that. Yeah, yeah. Over here, the Lord would have just literally struck him dead, like, because he's seen how the Lord operated back then. No, I see, yeah, I see. So that's what I'm saying that the disrespect toward God was a whole nother level. Not his heart, because our hearts are like that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was disrespectful. But that that was he literally disrespected God and was like, nah, I'm out. He checked his pocket for the change for the boat, and he was like, Are you done, God? Because I'm I got a boat to catch. That's next. The word of the Lord came to him and said, Arise, and he was like, I'm gonna arise that way. Like, come on, bro. That's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

That was disrespectful. Right, right, right. I but I think it happens today. I definitely think it happens today. There's plenty of times. Listen, there's times where you're a Christian and you supposed to be, you know, you're supposed to give a word to somebody, like the the Lord will press it on your heart, you'll share the gospel with that person. You don't know when you're gonna see him again. And you say it all the time. Like you, you, you have that heart for it that you think that this person is going to hell. You know, they don't hear the gospel, they're going to hell. You understand what I'm saying? And the Lord will put it on your heart, and you could be on that same train cart for 20 minutes and you don't move. No, no, no, no. You understand what I'm saying? And you'll get off that train and you know you're never gonna see him again, and you don't share the word. So, I mean, I understand what you're saying here as far as the he's being a prophet and all of that. I get it. But like on that level of just the responsibility of having the word of God and giving it to people who need it, there's plenty of times the Lord will tell you to go see. 100%. I think that happens. And you you'll be disobedient where you just like nah. Whatever, whatever the reason may come across, you know. You just be like, nah. And I think there are people who they be like, nah, man, that person's white, and I'm black, and I'm not gonna speak to them. Right. Because I feel a way, I feel a way about white people. Yeah, I feel away, I feel away what white people did to my ancestors and such and such. So you know what? I'm not gonna be that generous with the word of God to that that that waitress that's sitting here that need it, and you have that feeling towards it because you didn't have that, like you said, there's unforgiveness. So I see it on that level all the time. And there's race. We're living in a world where race is right, right. There's so much racial tension. You can't tell me that that don't play in a part where even as believers, there's people who is not, you know, sharing the word just because of a you can't tell me that's not happening. Not in this, not in the world we live in now.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

I'm not disagreeing with the heart of people, right? So I'm just saying the repercussions back then are different than the repercussions now of disrespecting God. Okay, I guess. Yeah, yeah, oh, right, right, yeah, right. Like this is next level disrespect because he he could have the Lord could have just you know, so what are some of the characteristics just from those three verses you see in Jonah?

SPEAKER_01 47:34

So you said pride.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Oh, his characteristics, rebellious, definitely disobedience, rebellious, stubborn, yeah, narcissistic, racist, racist.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Those are some of the things we already see that's in him. And you know the Lord is gonna work those things up.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

So for the nine, yeah. But the Lord sent out a great wind on the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship was about to be broken up. Then the mariners were afraid, and every man cried out to his God, and threw the cargo that was in the ship into the sea to lighten the load. But Jonah had gone down into the lowest parts of the ship, had laid down, and was fast asleep. So the captain came to him and said to him, What do you mean, sleeper? Arise, call on your God, perhaps your God will consider us, so that we may not perish. And they said to one another, Come, let us cast lots, that we may know for what cause this trouble has come upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah. Then they said to him, Please tell us, for whose cause is this trouble upon us? What is your occupation, and where do you come from? What is your country? And of what people are you? So he said to them, I am a Hebrew, and I fear the Lord, the God of heaven, who made a sea and a dry land.

SPEAKER_04 49:16

God had other plans.

SPEAKER_06 49:19

You try to he tried to, and it says the whole reason was to get away from the presence of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Exercising futility.

SPEAKER_06 49:29

It was to get away from his presence. That was the whole point of him going down to uh Tarshish. He he wanted to get away from the presence of God. You know, it that responsibility, he understood the responsibility, he knew his march and orders, all of that. He's like, God, I don't even want to be in your presence. That was the whole main reason of him going. That's why he tried to go, you know, 1,500 miles away. It was like the further I tried to travel, the further I am away from God. He didn't want to be in God's presence. And we see again the grace of God. So God hurled the wind at him.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

That's right. That's it. I'm gonna hurl the wind at you. Um Isaiah 46, 9 says, Remember the former things from long ago, because I am God, and there is no one else. I am God, and there was none like me. I declare from the beginning things to follow, and from ancient times things that have not yet been done. Saying, My purpose will stand, and he will accomplish everything that I please. But you can't. Like, what are you doing? First of all, it's your job. Right? Your boss came to you and told you, yo, this is what you're gonna do. Alright? So if God has a purpose for you, you you're not gonna escape that. So it's is you know, you're gonna get in line. Right? He has a purpose for you, he's also gonna equip you to do that. He's gonna be with you, he's gonna empower you to do that. And if you want to be rebellious, then he's he's gonna roll over you to get you back in line.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

And I like that, you know, the Lord probably sat there and was like, alright. He was watching the boat for because obviously it was a a little while into the ocean, or else these guys would have just swam back to shore, right? So he he lets it go in a little bit and then he sends then he sends the wind, right? You know what I mean? And so this dude sleepy, he thinks that he averted God, right? He really thinks that he won. And we see that nowadays when we're disobedient. The Lord will allow a certain amount of time to pass for you to fall asleep and to think that it's all gravy. You know what I mean? Until he hits you, you know, with whatever it is. You know, and I and I think that that's pretty funny here.

SPEAKER_06 51:54

I think that I think that was the disrespect. What, what, what? The sleep. I think that was. I mean, that was definitely disrespectful to me. I think the the the the getting away from the presence of God, again, he understood. Like, as we read on, I don't want to ruin it, but you know, he understood who God was. So he's like, I gotta get away from your presence because I know who you are. So, you know, he does all of this, he goes into the ship, but it's just the part of you know you're in like straight rebellion and all of that. My man was like, Yo, B, I'm gonna go take a nap. That was yeah. Like you would, you know, you would think you'd be on the boat like yo, baby. Hello man, I'm off. You know what I'm saying? I'm supposed to, you know I'm going the opposite direction. You I know me, I would be contemplating, I'd be sitting there like, yo, B, this is God, man. Like, yo, dog, I got this mission. I'm wrong. I'll be probably pacing back and forth. You probably be pacing back and forth on the deck. My man was like, yo, dog, I'm gonna go take a nap. There was no guilt. I think that's that, I think that was the disrespect where God was like, really? Yo.

SPEAKER_08 53:03

There was no guilt. Well, I mean, well, the thing is, the storm was raging outside, right? And his sleep could have been a point where, like, yo, that storm is nowhere near the storm that's going inside. Because he knows he's in direct rebellion. Because we see every single moment here is like he's going down and down and down, right? He went down to go to Tarsha's. Now he gets on the boat and he goes further down. So you see, he everything is moving further and further away from God. And you know how the Lord is. When he brings that storm into your heart, it's nothing compared to the storm that's outside. Right. So that's why I think that guy just slept. Because like, yo, yeah, that storm, there ain't nothing that's happening on the inside of me right now.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

You wait, you think there was something happening in his heart at that point? That dude knows he was in rebellion.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

If you're sleeping, you're not thinking about it. But that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Yeah. I don't think there's I don't know if there's something brutal. Yeah, I don't think I think my man He was sleeping. And not just like a nap. He was a deep sleep. They had to wake him up.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Listen, if there was liquor on the ship, he would have been drunk. I'm like, yo, my men, he wasn't on that ship. He was like, but you drown out, you know. Trying to block out your conscience. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. So I'm not. No, you ever, I know Ralph probably didn't experience this. You ever come home? Your report card is six o'clock. No, you go to sleep.

SPEAKER_06 54:31

I used to put them on like nine layers.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Seven o'clock, you snoring while you sleeping.

SPEAKER_06 54:52

Because I'm like that f if the first hit comes, I can absorb it and get up and make my move. And I think, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

I think that was part of it. Like, if you're sleepy, you're not your conscious is not bothering you at the time. And you see him, you know, he he's going down, right? Yeah. Obviously, sometimes you have to take notice when the same word is used constantly. Um, and he's going down. Like, you're gonna go down. Could you think he's gonna go even lower?

SPEAKER_06 55:18

Could you think it was a level of probably depression? Because like what Ralph was saying, maybe he felt like, you know what I'm saying? Like sometimes, you know, sometimes where you're just in a funk, you're just like, you know, you got people that just be in a funk where they just don't want to get out of bed. You know what I mean? They'll do days in bed. Like, you know, you hear about sometimes people is just like, I'm so depressed, I don't want to come out of bed. So do you think it was a situation where Ralph might like Ralph might be onto something where it's like, you'll be I'm in rebellion, I'm not right with God, I'm messed up, and it's just you know what I mean? I'm gonna I'm gonna hide out. Like I'm gonna hide out.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

Is remember, they weren't they weren't sealed with the Holy Spirit back then, right? So it wasn't like the Holy Spirit was you know tugging on him and you know convicting him. Yeah, but he did get the word of God. Yeah, he got the word and then he left and God was no longer in front of him, right?

SPEAKER_06 56:17

So I'm just trying to think like God was there, that and that's what the storm showed. Because that's what he was trying to do, like get away from the presence of God. And I think the storm showed that.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

Well, the storm showed that, but before the storm started, right? He he he paid his fare, he went down, took, he started sleeping. I feel like at that point he didn't care. Like this dude was just disrespectful. We we see his heart.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

I don't know if I'd say that. Because he he was a Jew. Like they they had they knew they had knowledge about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was his culture.

SPEAKER_06 56:51

Like he knew he knew the he knew what?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

He knew who he knew God's quality. Yeah, he knew.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

It just said he just literally said it says here in the word that he thought he was going away from the presence of God.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

That's that's the whole thing. That doesn't make sense. That does, yeah. But like the stuff I understand what you're saying, but the stuff that he's saying, like he's gonna say something, we're gonna read it, it doesn't make sense with his actions, right?

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Yeah, what doesn't make sense with the things.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

And I hear what you're saying. What he believes in what he knows about God, yeah, it doesn't make sense the way he's behaving, and that's what happens when you're in rebellion to God.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

And this is what I'm saying, they weren't filled with the Holy Spirit. No, but that is the Holy Spirit wasn't working on his heart the entire time.

SPEAKER_06 57:43

No, the only reason I disagree, because it's like with David, when you read David's psalm, when he was in rebellion, David was like that whole year. I was his bones. My bones was aching. My bones was aching when he was in rebellion.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

You don't think that was the Holy Spirit dealing with David? Right. I think he was convicted, like he was being convicted. But David wasn't sleeping, no, but is what I'm saying. I feel like this is a different scenario.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

These people, they still, they still had the knowledge of God. You gotta say, they were the only Yeah, they did. They were the only group on the planet that had a relationship with God. It wasn't the relationship that we have now through the new cover. It was completely different. But that's not to say that they didn't know that I'm rebelling against God. Like when you read Psalms and the prayers of of David, like that. These people, they knew what they messed up. They knew who God was, they knew his laws, he knew he was in rebellion.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

I I'm not saying I I agree with you. He knew he was in rebellion, he just didn't care, is what I'm trying to say. No, yeah, he didn't care. But this is what I'm saying. But that doesn't mean it didn't bother him. He's sleeping. We literally we see what happens later on, a few verses later, where he would rather have something happen to him than literally repent. He did not care about his actions at that point.

SPEAKER_08 59:02

No, I see what you're saying. I think that's no, that's a good point. That's a valid point. That he just did not care. Like he had so much hatred for the Assyrians that I'm willing to just rebel and yo, I don't care about anything.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

His will was priority over God's will.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

His will was priority over God's will.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

What I want is before is before what you want, God. And when it comes to this situation right here, this particular situation, God, you telling me to go to these people that I hate, that are killing us, that are putting us under all these atrocities and and cruelty. Yeah, I don't agree. I think you're wrong, God. Yep. You should do it my way, which is destroy them. Yep. So he's putting his will. I understand what you're saying, and I agree. He didn't care. He cared more about his feelings and what he thought over what God said.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:07

Yeah, that's that narcissistic personality.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

He was a narcissist. And he only cared about his will when it came to this situation. But I'll I'll I'll isolate it to just this part. So yeah, he didn't care. And you know, the sleeping part, I'll say he'll avoid he's avoiding meditating on what's going on. So you know, I'm gonna go to sleep. Let the time pass. So he you know, he goes down to the ship. What are we read to nine? Yeah. So he's in a ship full of pagans, right? It talks about them. The drama comes, so it seems like they they have an inkling that this is something supernatural, like this storm is not regular because now they're getting spiritual. Right, they call on their gods, right? Sometimes when people get in the jam, they get in trouble, they they get spiritual quick.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:58

Yeah, they pray. Yeah, right. There are no atheists on a plane that's about to crash, right? I bet you no atheists. So God.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

It's it's crazy when you praying to a God that doesn't exist, or you're praying to a God that has no power. You still gotta do work.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:14

And you know, the interesting thing that I like here when he says, and they threw the cargo that was on the ship into the sea to lighten the load. And I was just thinking about that in terms of um how many times, you know, when people do get in the jam, they start to do put on put in all their self-effort on how to get out of the jam.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Their God didn't right. So they start, oh, let me.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:35

Yeah, you start doing work. Oh, let me, oh, let me stop cursing. Maybe that'll help me. Let me do the 12-step program, let me stop drinking, or let me stop smoking. So they try to put off all the works of the flesh, thinking that that's what's gonna help them to get to God when it requires Jesus Christ to deliver you, to save you, and not you try to do these personal works.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

So, um, so they run up to him, right? Call him a sleeper. Yo, get up. And they say a lies.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:05

They say you think you think when they said that he heard God's voice? You think when they he heard the a lies, he got up like that's the same way, that's the same way, and he he got he got one piece of shock up in his life.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

He's like, no, no, no, and it was like a rise and call on your God. So they interrogate the guy, like, yo, dude, where you from? Yo, what's going on? This thing is not regular, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:35

Um right, because they see that they're all working and they this guy's sleeping. So they're like, something's up. Because we all over here, we're praying to our gods, we're lightening the load, the cargo, but the storm is still going on, and this guy is just fast asleep. Yeah, fast asleep. You know, and like you said, they understood it was something supernatural. This storm was raging, it was going crazy, and they're like, yo, get up. They they shook them up, like, get up and help me. Call on your guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

If there was 11 guys on the ship, 10 of them was praying, they got no answer. So, like, yo, there's one more person that's here. We gotta deal with him to see. Maybe it's his God. You gotta understand the pagans and how they thought, right, right, and how they saw like the supernatural interacting with them.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:21

And you know, you know, it's a quick um interesting thing that how you could I I'm thinking, speculating why they know that this was supernatural because these were, you know, um, probably Phoenicians, they were mariners, they were seafarers, so they knew the sea, they knew how they were traveling from the port dropping and all that, right? And what happened is that you could tell if, you know, it's gonna be stormy, if you know the wave's gonna be too much. You could tell that by looking in the sky. You know, if it's dark or if it's gloomy, then they probably were like, no, we're not gonna depart, we're not gonna go anywhere because it's not gonna be proper time, you know. It's you know, it's high tide, low tide. Right. So they know the signs, they could read the sky to see. So they got on the boat because they everything was normal at the port, everything was going smooth, right? All of a sudden it's like, yo, we didn't expect this. So that's why they knew that this was supernatural, and that's why they started praying.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:13

And the only person that stood out was you, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

But when the Lord throw something at you, you stood out. You gotta know. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:22

Yeah, they knew this wasn't regular this wasn't regular daggulo. They dealt with storms before, but right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

And they're trying to get down.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

Yo, it says the Lord threw the storm, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

It's through the wind. They gotta get down to the bottom of the sort. Oh man. They knew this wasn't regular.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:41

This is the Lord. This was a fastball. Who yeah, uh man. We we read through nine. It says cast lots. Yeah, first seven, where it was like the casting of the lots to see who it falls upon and it fell upon Jonah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

So what was casting lots? That was like them drawing what do you call it?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:04

Drawing straws. Drawing straws. Yeah. I mean, it was done like with dice. Dice, right. So it was, you know. So right there, this is another aspect that is. That was a confirmation. Yeah, it was a confirmation that, you know, they knew they knew something was up, they knew it was supernatural. They cast lots, it fell upon Jonah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

And and dog, they're in the ship, calamity is happening, crazy storm, and it's the pagan pagans that got spiritual. And the spiritual man of God is sleeping. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:36

Asleep, fast asleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

You know what I'm saying? And they're trying to figure out what's going on, and the Lord is now going to expose Jonah, and he's using non believers. He's using pagans.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:49

That's the worst.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

And they're they're like, Yo, we have to. There's people on the ship. You know, you get a sense that they care.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

We're gonna read on, like they're trying to. There's lives at stake. No, definitely. But they're the ones that have the sense to you know call on their God. You know what I'm saying? Or worried that they might have done something that's wrong. Or somebody here did something that's wrong. Right. And we need to correct it.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:22

You think Jonah had a dumb look on his face? They was like, yo, bruh. You think when they woke him up, he looked at them like yo with this dumb. You know when you got the, you know when it's you? You know when it's you and you around everybody and they you give them the you got the dumb look on your face. You like, yo, man. Yo, everybody frantic. Everybody throwing cargo. They losing cargo. And you over here, you sleep. Nah, man. And then he woke up and he was like, what? And then he gave him the dumb look. And they was like, yo, man, we're gonna cast slots and confirm that something's going on. And when they hit the confirmation, they hit him with the interrogation.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

Yo, what have you done?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:01

Yeah, they was like, then then they said to him, Please tell us for who cause is this trouble upon us? What is your occupation? Where you come from? Like they hit him with the full interrogation because it's like, yo, dog, you're guilty. Yeah. You're fully, like, we know now. We cast lots, you're guilty. You're full. So now they hit him with the interrogation, and now it gets to a point where he has to confess. And he says, you know, um, I and I fear the Lord, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land. And this is in the middle of a storm. You know what I mean? He's like, he was like, the God I serve has made the sea. They in a storm on sea. So he's, you know, he confessed, like, this is my God. This is my God. Because that's what they were wondering. They was like, Ya, who God is doing this? And he was like, This is my God.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

His perception of God is the correct perception, but his actions are contrary to that. Because you understand who this God is, but you're trying to go hide in the furthest place you can think, and and the tip of Spain, tar shit. Thinking that you could escape from just that statement alone doesn't make sense. You know what I'm saying? And we could see that that rebellion, the pride, the just him, the stubbornness, him being the way he is, causes actions that doesn't line up with the knowledge of God that he has. And he just says it says it right now to these guys. He's like, Yeah, my God, he he made the wind.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

He made the seas, he made the land, he made everything. And but this is what I'm saying. I think that there is something to the fact that these people were not sealed by the Holy Spirit. You think about even when the Lord took Israel out of Egypt, how quick was it that they rebelled against the God who parted the seas? Like they it's so easy for these people to forget who God is.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Yeah, but it it's the same now. That's yeah, it's the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

I understand what you're saying, but I mean it's the same thing. I don't I don't think it's the same. Matter of fact, it's worse now. Well, yeah, but that's what I'm I'm saying. It's worse now. Because as the Holy Spirit living in us, who's our teacher, who's our counselor, that's what I'm saying, because he's doing it. Right? He he's he's inside of us, living inside of us, and we still telling us what not to do, and we still are disobedient. But what I'm saying is, can you imagine someone who the Holy Spirit hasn't sealed? This is what I'm saying. This is why he's sleeping fast asleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:33

This is why nothing around him matters. No, no, no. Because you have two groups, right? Those without the Holy Spirit, those with the Holy Spirit. But they do the same thing. Yep. So the Holy Spirit is not a fact, yeah. It's just the same thing. I don't think you understand. I understand exactly what you're saying. Nah, we understand exactly what you're saying, Ans. You agree with me that we do the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:54

It might not be because we saw the parting of the seeds, but that's because we do the same thing, we're more disobedient, is what I'm saying. No, because the Holy Spirit literally is doing this to us. Here, I just don't see how the Holy Spirit was doing that to them unless God literally should be able to do that. He threw a storm at them. I'm not saying that part.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

And you know why we're disobedient? Why? Because we're disobedient.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:18

Yeah. I'm not saying I'm not saying why we're disobedient. I'm saying what stops us from that is the Holy Spirit, right? The Holy Spirit teaches us. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we're doing things that we shouldn't, right? When he was paying for for his his ticket on the boat, did the Holy Spirit convict him? I don't know. Probably not, right? Because the Holy Spirit wasn't living inside of him. And this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:42

But the one thing though is that um, like as we read, I mean, from the Old Testament, you know, we you know, it talks about that the Holy Spirit come upon them. So the thing, it wasn't because it uses the word epi and not end, right? Because in uh in the new covenant, the Holy Spirit is dwelling, like you said, in us, but in the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit used to come upon them. Yeah, that's like I'm like you. So I think that with the Holy Spirit upon them, there still was a form of a level of conviction, I think. I don't know to what level, to what degree.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

I'm sure that coming upon them permanent.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:12

No, no, that wasn't right, right, right. No, it wasn't permanent. No, it wasn't, it wasn't permanent.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

We'll never leave us, nor for so he's always inside of that's all I'm saying is that we have that that on the inside of us that tells us like this, you shouldn't be doing this, my son. You should not be doing that. I don't see him, that's why we can't sleep when we have a guilty conscience. Him, he was sound asleep, and that's all I'm trying to say is I feel like it's a little bit easier for them to do that. No, I don't believe that. I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

And and the reason I say that is because they had the law. Right. So it's kind of like it's two different things.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:49

All right, all right. It's because it's because the only reason I don't believe that is because of what David said when he was in rebellion. But that was specifically David. No, I I don't like I said, David had the word of God, he understood right from wrong. And he even David, he was like, yo, Lord, don't take your Holy Spirit away from me. You understand what I'm saying? He said that. So again, I understand what you're saying, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but this guy was a prophet. He knew the word of God, the word of God came to him. I believe I'm not I'm not trying to tell, we don't know when he was convicted, when he wasn't convicted. We can't get into details like that. But dog, it's clear at even at this moment when the the sailors come to him, he knows.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

So you know, there's no conviction here either.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

You know what? Based on what you're saying, then a lot of these things shouldn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:42

A lot of what things?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

Just the rebellion.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:45

Where are we talking about Old Testament? Because we have no no no because what you just said, why are we disobedient? Because we're disobedient.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:52

We just we now have more help to not be disobedient. So then why are we still disobedient? Because we're disobedient. So that's what I'm saying. It's the same thing I'm saying. So the being disobedient part isn't the part that I'm disagreeing with. But you're gonna do what you want to do, regardless. It's your regardless, but the conviction behind it is different now. This is that's the only thing I'm trying to say, is our conviction now is different than his conviction. I think it don't matter. I think it don't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

His conviction was not there. No, the word of God. He had the word of God, he had the word of God, B.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:34

That was his conviction. Because I give you a perfect example, Adam and Eve. They was perfect, everything was perfect, and they still had that free will and went against God, bro. You understand what I'm saying? I think it's it's it's not on God, it's not on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, God is the same. You understand what I'm saying? But as far as man, it's about on your level of rebellion, your level of disobedience. It don't have nothing to do with God. But God is holy, God is gonna deal with you. And and when you know, you're gonna know right from wrong. But I'm agreeing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

The Holy Spirit seal us, He He teaches us, right? He's that promise. Exactly. Um, so does he prevent us from doing what we want to do? We have free will. That's it. To do what we want. And that's what we're saying. Like you've got to be able to do that. Okay, the characteristics and what his job is for us. So you're saying the conviction of the Holy Spirit he did not have. I agree with you. This is that's the only thing I'm trying to say. Did he did he have conviction? He probably did.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

At some points, maybe. Of course he did, right? But I feel like it wasn't a continuous conviction, which is why he was fast asleep, which is why when we read a few more verses, he's like, throw me overboard. He he didn't have conviction, bro.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:46

Nah, I don't, I wouldn't give it like that because you you have people that are prodigals. Let's say you're a prodigal. When you you out there, you live in, you know what I'm saying? You you let's say you was with the Lord and you go out there and you be a prodigal. Dog, there's that point, even with the prodigal, it's not until he started eating slop with the pigs where it was like, yo, no, no, no, let me go back to my father.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

You understand what I'm saying? But me, as me being a prodigal, there was always that inner voice that told me I was doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

You didn't have the Holy Spirit?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

I I believe I was saved. What all you gotta do is is believe. Oh, he said he was a prodigal. He said he was a prodigal. No, as a prodigal, he was saved, but he was right, right, right, right, right. So you made you made your confession. My confession millions of times, right? I believed in God. So what I'm saying is I was a prodigal. Okay, you know what I mean? My heart wasn't regenerated till I was 35, but I believed in him, and there was always that voice when I was doing things that I what shouldn't have. That conviction was always there. I was enjoying what I was doing, but the conviction was always there.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

So the conviction of the Holy Spirit, I agree. He did not have that because he didn't have the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:55

I mean, and that all I'm just trying to say is it's a little bit easier for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

That's the part I don't know be disobedient. But the easy part that's the part I don't know or I don't agree with because I don't know the reason why I don't agree with it, because of David.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:08

Because exactly what David said. He said that whole year I was messed up. That's why I would never that's why you can't say, oh, it was it was easier. Nah, bruh. This was David, this was a man that was after God's heart, bruh. David was that's why he said, he said, Lord, don't take your Holy Spirit away from me. Like David understood that. He understood the word of God, he understood the presence of God, he understood when he was in the presence of God, and when he wasn't, it killed him. So that's why I I you can't tell me it was easier.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

Do we have greater resources than they did back then? Yes, I do. I believe so. We have the word, we have the words. Yeah, I agree with that. We have the whole so yes, I agree. Now, is it the easy part? No. I wouldn't say that because, like we said, you know why he rebelled? Why he was disobedient? Because he was just disobedient.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:57

How easy did it seem for him to rebel right here? I'm gonna deal with that later.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:02

Let's let's move on. Watch, watch, watch. It's gonna come back later. Why I'm I'm gonna deal with that. I know exactly, and I'm gonna deal with that later. Let's be on this reading.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:10

So 10 to 17. Then the men were exceedingly afraid and said to him, Why have you done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the Lord because he had told them. Then they said to him, What shall we do to you that the sea may be calm for us? For the sea was growing more tempestuous. And he said to them, Pick me up and throw me into the sea, then the sea will become calm for you. For I know that this great tempest is because of me. Nevertheless, the men rode hard to return to land, but they could not, for the sea continued to grow more tempestuous against them. Therefore they cried out to the Lord and said, We pray, O Lord, please do not let us per perish for this man's life, and do not charge us with the innocent blood, for you, O Lord, have done as it pleased you. So they picked up Jonah and threw him into the sea, and the sea ceased from its raging. Then the men feared the Lord exceedingly and offered a sacrifice to the Lord and took vows.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:36

So showing you that they they heard of this God and they were like, this was mind-blowing to them. That this is no regular God. This was Yahweh.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:45

And they were experiencing it.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:47

Because now they ex yeah, and because they experienced this, they was like, This is this is not the type of God that we follow. This is the one true living God that has power over land and sea. Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

What a what a bad witness it was. Like you had these pagans checking this man of God. Like, dog, why did you do that? Right? He probably told him, Yeah, you know, the Lord came to me, told me to go to Nineveh and do this. And he was like, Dog, you didn't go? Like this your God just threw wind at us. We're about to die. And you telling me you didn't go and do what the Lord told you to do? He was like, yo, why did you do that? And that's you just see, you know, imagine an unbeliever checking a believer. Because they're seeing you doing something that you're not supposed to do, and they be like, Yo, dog, why would you do that? You're supposed to be spiritual, you're supposed to, you know, you're supposed to be living holy.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:47

And the thing about it, it was affecting all of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:50

Because that's what that's why they really was checking them. Because they like, yo, dog, we're all gonna die here. This thing is what you did is affecting every one of us. And I know Jonah was off, but I think this was a part. I think, like you said, like I think this conversation when it was happening, I think there was a point where he's like, the whole point was to get away from the presence of the Lord, and now I'm in the middle of the storm. And not only am I in the middle of the storm, look how many people's lives that I'm risking.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

You think he cared?

SPEAKER_06 1:20:22

I think he got to that point. I think it hit. I think it hit. I don't think, I don't think it was like a full repentance and all of that, but I think he's conscious to the point of dog, I'm off because of what he does after that. Because if he didn't care, it would have been like, dog, I the sea, the ship is gonna, we all die. But I think that decision he made to throw me into the sea, because it's gonna calm this storm, understanding when you throw me in the sea, I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:55

I think that point, I think they're right.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:57

There was a at that point, he was like, I don't think it was a conversation like, nah, you know, I I left the Lord and nah. I think it's I think we're in the middle of this storm, the storm is raging. They looking at him like, yo, dude, what would he what did what did you do? And he's probably like, yo, this is what happened. The Lord told me this and that. And I ran from his presence because he said that's what he told him. He confessed to them. Like, yo, this is happening because I ran from the presence of the Lord. Like you said, they probably rebuking him, dealing with him, and he's like, yo, man, but you know how this thing's gonna come. You know what? And I think that sacrificial move right there, it probably wasn't, you know. I don't think he got to a point of full repentance and he cared about Nineveh and all that, but I think at that moment he knew he was wrong, and he was trying to write it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:40

What I think, what I see so dope, what got him to that point was the compassion of these Gentiles, right? Because it said once he told them everything and what he they had to do, it says, nevertheless, the men rode hard to return to land because they didn't want to throw him over. So his whole defiance against God was because he had no mercy and no compassion for for um the the enemies in Nineveh, right? Yeah, but these people who did not even follow the Lord were showing him a compassion that they didn't have to do.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:12

I think his this because it says that came before that, right? It says, then they said to him, What shall we do to you? What shall we do to you that the sea may be calm for us for the sea was there? And then he said to them, pick me up and throw me in the sea. Nevertheless, the men rode. Right, you know what I'm saying? So I think that's why I think I think that was a genuine moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think, I don't think Jonah was like, throw me in the sea because he saw these men think. Because these men was like, no, dog, my our life, yo, what did you do? Our lives is in danger. And Jonah, I think at that moment he was like, Yo, dog, I messed up. Throw me into the sea. And I think those men was like, we can't do that. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying because of his, you know, like it's playing off of what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:57

He told these people himself throw me overboard to save yourself. And he saw them do that. Yeah, not do that. He was like, damn, these people could have just threw me over.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:05

Do you think, do you think it was because of him ready to sacrifice himself that they responded in a way like, nah, we can't throw you overboard? But Jonah knew that was the answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:14

I think I think part of them being so reluctant to do it was their fear of his God. Yes. But the prayer that they say afterward was like, you know what, Lord, we about to body this dude. Give us He's in. They even called him innocent or whatever, but they said charged us with innocent blood.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:31

Yeah, I I agree with you. I think I think it's two things. I think it's um that they were afraid of, yo, this guy threw a wind at us and almost killed us. Now we're gonna throw his prophet exactly. What if this guy was this guy's already running away from the Lord? What if he he messed up somehow and we killed the prophet? You know what it's all I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

I think I think you're right. Jonah was stubborn and defiant the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:59

The whole time?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:02

And he stood there and he told them what happened, and he put the responsibility on them. He was like, kill me. I'm still trying to get away from the Lord. Kill me. So I still won't have to deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:15

Yeah, I mean, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

That's why they was like, yo, dog, we're not gonna kill you. And they're trying to do everything that they can. That's why they prayed and be like, yo, don't put the blood on us. Jonah could have called on the Lord. Right. Yeah. But he him being the prideful, the selfish dude that he is, the narcissist, he put the responsibility on them. He's like, Y'all do it. I ain't doing nothing. I'm not moving. I'm still stubborn. Kill me. I don't know. I don't know if I like I think I believe. You think he was being self-sacrificing? He knew he listen, he knew the Lord was coming for him. So why he didn't go back to sleep? Doug, why didn't he pray and repent? Yeah. The storm would have it, it would have it would have chilled. Why do you why do you say that? Yeah, you knew that. Because he would have repented. What so what? Because he, you know when he repented? You know what the Lord had to do?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

Oh, yeah, we'll read, we're gonna read in the next chapter. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:09

But what I'm saying is repent for what? He had to get down lower. Do you know? No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:14

Because it wouldn't have been in God's will, because the boat would have just kept going to where it was going. Right? The Lord needed to get uh U-turn to get him back to where he needed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:24

If he would have repented and everything, no, he didn't. The storm, the storm was everybody was gonna die. Exactly. So if he repents he shifts the responsibility to these men.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:38

I see how you're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:39

He could have jumped, why don't you jump off? Why don't you jump off the boat? Why are you telling us?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:44

They asked him a question, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:46

No, no. He said, Y'all throw me. That's what I'm trying to show you. He says, Y'all throw me off the bus, and he put he shifted the responsibility on them to do something. Hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:55

No, let him talk. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:58

He could have easily repented to the Lord. Remember, he's he's a prophet. He could have easily repented to the Lord and was like, alright, turn back, yo. Drop me off. I gotta go back. He didn't do any of that. He stood there, he said, This is what the problem is, and they're asking him. And it's it's interesting you brought the point. The stuff that they're saying to him is similar to what the Lord told him. They're telling him, hey, go to your God to save us. You're the man of God. Talk to your God so that we could be saved. So let's so that we could get the grace. That's the same thing the Lord was telling him about Nineveh. So all this stuff is coming back to Jonah. It's like he's seeing all these stuff. But the point I'm seeing is like, yo, Duke could have He could have prayed, he could have repented, he could have jumped off the board himself. His legs was working. You went down to the ship, you came up. Your legs was working. Jump off.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:50

So let me ask you a question. Do you think it's at a point where you're just so down and out, it's just a poor decision?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:57

He's stubborn. This guy is stoned.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:01

I think there's a difference between his defiance against God and his compassion for these people. I think there's a difference. This is why he didn't repent. Because he was being defiant and disobedience against against God. Right? Not the people on the boat. The people on the boat simply asked him, What do we have to do for this to stop? So as a prophet, he knew what that was. The only way for it to stop wasn't for him to repent. It was for him to be thrown overboard. That was it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:31

What do you mean it was for him to be overboard? Why is that the answer? Because that's what the word says. No, but why do you think that's the answer? Him being thrown overboard. You think that was the answer?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:40

Because he was the reason why the Lord was causing the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:45

So he should have been like, guys, it's not, it's my fault. That's what he did. He fixed it. No, let me fix this. That's how he fixed it. Right. Let me fix it. Yeah. He shifted y'all fixed. This is what y'all have to do. He's pretty much telling. Telling them to commit a homicide.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:01

Right, because he understands as long as I'm on this boat, this thing is going to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

But you guys don't see based on the character of who he is and who he continued to be. To me, right there, because that feeling popped up later. He'd rather die. Because if he repent, he's gonna have to go do what the Lord told him to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:24

He doesn't want to. That's what I'm telling you. His disobedience and defiance toward God is different than the than what he's going through with the people.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:33

So still, he would rather put them in the bad position than for him to repent. He put them in a bad position. That's why they didn't want to do it. They was like, Your dog, this is off. Why are you telling us to throw you overboard?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:46

That's wrong. But but listen, it wasn't a bad position than what they were already in. He knew that the Lord wasn't going to condemn them for throwing him overboard. He knew that that wasn't what the Lord was gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:59

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:00

They didn't know that. Doesn't matter what they knew. He was a prophet. And why put them in that position? You don't do that. As a man of God, you don't do that. These guys, listen, these guys don't even know the Lord. They don't know. They don't know. But you could see that they have a level of spirituality and they have a level of morals where they was like, Your dog, nah, we can't do that. That's wrong. And they still tried to write the shit. I mean, until it got to a point where it's like, listen, it's either you or us. And what did they do before they did before they did it? They was like, yo, don't put it on us. It's not our fault. We can't help it. Then they threw him out. My whole point is, why didn't Jonah put them in that position?

SPEAKER_08 1:29:39

Well, I I I have a total different view on it. I think this this specific portion, like to what you're saying, how come he didn't jump off? I think this was actually a typology for Jesus Christ. Even though he was we cannot take these typologies all the way to the end, to the degree to the terminus point, you know, but we see multiple typologies throughout the scriptures. And I think this was a typology because we know that Jesus mentions Jonah, right? And I think this was part of it when he says, throw me off. That's like a heating jump off. Where the same way Jesus was put into the hands of man to be sacrificed, he put his hands, he put his body in the hands of the enemies to the Gentiles to be destroyed as a sacrifice so that they could be saved. And the only and I'm gonna show you something.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:28

The only reason, and then we see And I'm gonna show you something. I'm not gonna take it to the Nth degree, though.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:33

No, no, I agree with the type of thing. That's the reason I'm gonna say why he didn't jump off.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:37

And the only and the only reason the heck. And the only reason, the only reason I'm saying that is because it says he told them to do that. They was like, nah, we're not gonna do that. They rebelled against what he was because they were like, like you said, that's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, it's wrong. It's homicide. They went against what Jonah told them to do, and what did they do? They started rowing. Right. Yeah. They was like, yo, bro, we not gonna do that. That's madness. We ain't gonna do that. They started rowing, and what happened? The Lord was like, nah, the storm is still going. And it's not until they did it, it says, after they did it, it says, so they picked him up, and now, like, like, like, like Angel's saying, he was like, I know what has to be done. Y'all gotta throw me into this sea. Okay, and it and it's just this real quick. And it says, so they picked up up Jonah and threw him into the sea, and the sea ceased from raising.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

That's the part we disagree on. All right. You're saying that they had to, he's saying that they had to do this.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:31

Yeah, I believe, I believe he knew exactly, y'all gotta take me and throw me off this ship. I don't believe that. And and the only reason I believe that is because they disobeyed. And when they disobeyed, the storm kept going. And it's not until they were obedient to exactly what Jonas said to do, how to do it, everything went straight. That's right. And that that's why I that's why I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:54

I feel like they disobeyed and it didn't work, but as soon as they obeyed, what do you mean they disobeyed? When what he was telling them to do was wrong. Right. And they disobeyed.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:03

Telling him to throw him overboard was wrong? Hold on. No, I'm talking about in the sense I understand what he's talking about. Like kill him. Because that's why they was like, yo, this is innocent blood and all that. Right, okay, listen. But that was, I believe that's what the Lord told him to case.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:15

Then Jonah was supposed to disobey the Lord from the beginning. Hold on. And you know what, you know why I think that was true? You know why I think that was true? Why? Because people got saved.

unknown 1:32:25

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:26

This is what, yo, that's right. People got saved because of his disobedience. Okay, guys, wait. Let me say something.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:32

Before we say something, before we jump off perfect will and permissive will. Yo, that's what we're gonna talk about. Perfect will and permissive will.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:39

Mike said something to me a year or so ago that just I hope it was good. Yo, it's good. Because whenever whenever a pastor would ask me to speak, whenever I would go, people would ask me to preach before uh people, I would have this ridiculous pressure on me that I had to be perfect the weeks leading up to it, or God wasn't gonna use me. And and Mike was like, yo, that's pride. In my mind, I was like, yo, I just gotta be do this for the Lord. And he was like, No, that's pride. God's gonna use the word regardless of what you do, right? And this is what I see here. Regardless of his disobedience, the Lord is gonna save who he's gonna save. And these people on that boat were there because of his disobedience, and in the Lord's salvation plan, each and every one of them got saved. So this is why when you say, Oh, so he needed to be a disobedient, yes, he did. For all of eternity, those sailors, for all of eternity, those sailors are gonna be grateful that he was. I don't believe that. All right. All I'm saying is the Lord of the United States.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:41

Yo, that was that's I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:43

If I could give you a palm list, let's air, let's air.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:46

Yeah, that was.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:51

Yeah, I'm gonna use that's my breakdown. That's my breakdown. But, fam, if you're saying that yo, he had to do this and he had to do that and he had to do this, then this whole story's off. So So then you're saying from the beginning he had to disobey the word of God? No, I don't believe that. No. What do you mean? Well, if he didn't disobey the word of God, then he wouldn't have been in the boat, and it's they wouldn't have threw him off the boat, and there wouldn't have been a typology. Doug, that's how the story went. That doesn't mean the things that happened in the story was right. The Lord could use everything, he could use everything to glorify his name. I agree with you. But when you guys are saying, oh, this guy was sacrificial, hell no. He was stubborn.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:33

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:33

No, no, I agree with you. I'm not saying he wasn't stubborn. I think he was completely. And then he didn't, they didn't have to throw him off the boat. He could have did something else. He could have stopped, he could have turned around, he could have repented at the time.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:45

I believe they had to throw him off.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

No, he could have repented at any time.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:48

Because when they tried to do something else, the storm kept going.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:51

Listen, he could have repented. When he took out the money out of his pocket, he could have been like, damn, I'm off. And went back at any time. No, we're not talking about that. I'm talking about this point here. Listen, the whole the whole story of what he did was wrong. And he could have repented at any time. You're looking at the story and seeing a person go down, down, down to the point where he's at his lowest and he had to do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:14

I agree. Nobody's just playing with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:16

No, no, but why are you saying that they had to throw him off the boat?

SPEAKER_06 1:35:19

At this point, we're talking about the point we're at now. See, I'm not talking about these other points.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:24

I'm talking about, listen, I'm saying what he did was selfish. What he did was shift responsibilities to these guys. Okay. Because the storm would have stopped if he repented. At any time he repented, the storm would have stopped. How did he know that? Because when he was in the belly of the beast of the great fish and he repented, the Lord preserved him and said, I was like, all right, go back now.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:47

Yeah, so that was his butt. Alright, go ahead. No, no, no. No, I was gonna say, how did he shift responsibility by having them throw him throw him off the boat? How is that shifting responsibility?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:56

Because he told them to do it. Why didn't he call on the Lord?

SPEAKER_08 1:36:00

No, I was saying, how come he didn't just jump off?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:02

Or why didn't he just jump off?

SPEAKER_08 1:36:04

No, that's what I'm asking you. How is that shifting responsibility to them when he could have just, I mean, you know what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:11

Because he he's telling them to do something that he should be doing.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:14

All he's asking is so that's shifting responsibility to them for them to be the cause of what? What do you mean? So what would be the cause of shifting the responsibility?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:24

He's not doing something that he's supposed to do. So instead of doing it, he's just sitting there. Throw me off.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:31

I don't think he was sitting there. This is in the middle of a storm, whatever it is, he's not. So you think that's shifting responsibility?

SPEAKER_08 1:36:36

Because he already took responsibility, though. If he already took responsibility, he said the storm is because of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:43

I am rebelling.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:44

So wait a second, hold on, hold on. Is that confessing?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:47

But did he repent? I I didn't say he repented. You could confess all you want. I I agree with you. Okay. He didn't repent, but did he confess that the cause of the storm is me? Yes. So how are you saying that he shifted responsibility to them when he took the responsibility?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:03

What did responsibility? He said it was me. No, no, listen, listen. I know of the people. I know. But listen, but the thing that you reaction the responsibility though. Okay. You claim the responsibility. Yeah. What the action? What action did he take to reverse that?

SPEAKER_06 1:37:20

By throwing me off the shit? That was the action. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:26

What you're doing, you're shifting the responsibility. No. Okay. Listen, I see. I see what you're saying. No, I see what he said. I don't agree with that. Why didn't he call on God and repent?

SPEAKER_06 1:37:39

Because he's like, the only way the storm is going to stop is if you throw me off the shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:43

What I don't I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:45

As soon as they did it, it stuck. No. But why is it? You know why he said that? What Marcus is saying he's still stubborn.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:51

Is that the same thing? So why did the storm stop when they threw him off? Because he was off the boat. The Lord is like, all right, now I'm going to hurl something else at you. It's a great fish. If because I'm still dealing with you. It's not, listen, it's not the guys. It's not the guys on the board. Nobody's saying the guys. They were innocent. Because they even said. Hold on, guys. You're saying this guy is being sacrificial, and he's like, oh, guys, I'm going to give myself up to save you guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:15

That's what you said. I'm saying at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:18

And what did they say?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:19

Listen, no. Listen. I'm saying at a point, at a level of point he was conscious.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:23

I'm going to sacrifice myself to save you guys. And I'm saying that's not his mindset. Why not?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:30

He did not have to tell them that that was needed to be done, right? He could have just stayed on that everybody died. These people asked him what must be done. You know what wasn't an option? His repentance. Right? If they asked him what must be done for this to stop and our lives to be saved, he should have said, one, you can throw me overboard, or two, I can repent.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:50

All right. That was not an option. Okay. So I think I think you guys. Alright, so I think we're looking at it, we're looking at it differently. Well, we're not. I I know how you're looking at it.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:59

I think the Lord was judging him too. I think that's why I think I'm gonna show you something. I think, like you said, he's going down, he's going down, he's going down, he's going down. Like this, this, this, this, this, this, listen. He's doing all of this, he's spiraling out of control, he's rebelling against God. So, okay, you get inside the ship, you sleep, the storm is happening. I think this was a judgment on God dealing with him. Like, yo, you want to rebel against me? Now here's a storm. Now the storm is going and now he realized, yo, I put all these people's lives in danger. Yeah, now you gotta get thrown off the ship. I think this is God dealing with him because like I said, he is rebellious, but it's not until we get to the next chapter, next week, we're gonna see where he finally, yo, but God is like, yo, I don't worry about it. I'll deal with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:43

He needed to hit rock bottom. Where he praised to God.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:46

Why didn't he do that? That's that's what I'm that's what I'm because he was rebellious. You're looking at a group of pagans and you're looking at a man of God. Look at their actions.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:58

Well, show some respect because they did get saved. All right. God, listen, God used that opportunity. They were all full of saved men.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:05

God used that opportunity to save guys, but it was despite of this guy's behavior. When he's supposed to be, he's supposed to be the spiritually mature one that's supposed to show these guys the kindness and the love of God. Like he was supposed to do with Nineveh.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:22

But how is he behaving? That's that's the part. You guys, I'm getting the impression that you're saying he's being noble in what he told you.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:29

No, no, no, he wasn't being noble? No, he he just understood the the word came to him when he was like, You thought I gotta get thrown off the ship. Y'all gotta throw me off the ship.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:36

What word came to him to say that? That's why he said it. That's why he said the word. What word? The word of God said he had to get thrown off the ship? Yeah, that's why he knew. It was a problem at this point. He knew he knew I gotta get thrown off the ship.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:48

Listen, that's why it happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:49

What makes you say that he knew what needed to be done?

SPEAKER_06 1:40:52

Because that's what the sea stopped raging.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:54

No, he knew why the sea was raging. And they asked him, what must we do in order to stop the sea from raging? I gotta get away from you guys. Nope. He said, throw me overboard.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:04

Okay, but why did he see that?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:05

Because he knew that that was what was gonna stop the sea. Okay, that was what was gonna save those people.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:11

I don't understand that part. The part you guys are not seeing that he told why did he tell them to do it? Why didn't he do something?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:19

I get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:20

Okay, so that's why I'm saying his own.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:22

I get how you think he's shifting.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:24

His attitude this is my whole point. His attitude was still prideful, I agree. It was still narcissistic. I agree, yeah. I agree. What he said wasn't anything that was sacrificial, thinking about those. No, it was a disguise in a way to get saved.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:38

No, when I say his witness was totally bad. No, I I'm talking about he he understood, he was uh um he was conscious and he understood, like it says, it says, then they said to him, What shall we do? For the sea was growing more uh temp tempestuous. And he said to them, Pick me up and throw me in the sea, then the sea will become calm for you, for I know that the great tempest is because of me. He understood that and he was like after me, right? And that he understood, yo, you get me off this boat, here I am.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:10

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:11

Throw me off this boat, and this is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:13

I I repent. The sea would have stopped.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:16

Let's move on. How you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:18

It would have stopped. How you know that?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:19

Don't say that, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:21

You don't say that, but that's the point the Lord was getting them to.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:24

But how you know at this point that that would have stopped?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:26

No, that's the point the Lord was trying to get him to, is it not? But I'm asking you, how you know at this point is not the Lord trying to get him. Right, and okay, and I believe this is the steps at that point, whether it came at any point, at any time. That's why I said before he peeled his money to give it to the boat, he could have repented at any point. Listen, what this is all speculation. This is how the story goes. I'm understanding, I understand how the story goes. But it's kind of like you're saying, Oh, he had to get thrown off the boat. What do you mean he had to do that? Why?

SPEAKER_06 1:42:58

Let me ask you a question. You see how when one of the disciples got saved, the first thing he did, what was it, Levi? He came and he gave back everybody double. You understand what I'm saying? Dog, this the Lord deals with everybody differently. You understand what I'm saying? He understood that's what I have to do. You understand what I'm saying? Just listen. The Lord understood, he understood that, yo, when he got saved, he was like, everybody that I robbed, I have to give back and give back double. That might have not been for somebody else. It's the same thing how he dealt with Peter. When Peter was like, yo, what about John? He was like, yo, what does that have to do with you? I'm talking to you. So I'm saying, in this point, in this, at this point right now, the sea is raging, everything. Jonah's like, Dog, I know this storm is cause of me. Y'all throw me off, the storm is gonna calm down. Because he understood that's why he that had to be good.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:48

He was the cause of that storm. Well, I mean, we do understand that he rather die than go to Nineveh. Why did that's the bottom line?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:56

To throw him. Was that the only way? Is that what you guys are saying? That was the only way.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:00

That's the only way. That's all we got. Yeah, that's all I got. I understand what we got.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:06

I don't have nothing else. I can't speculate with nothing else. What is the point? What is the point of story? What's the overall lesson that the Lord is trying to teach?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:15

The Lord is trying to get him to the point where he has to go to Nineveh and preach this word. That's what the because that was the only word the Lord ever gave him. Arise, go to Nineveh, cry out to him. And that's the battle that he's having. So he's having a battle to go out and go out to Nineveh and whatever the case may be. So from however that verse three on is bad. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:36

But Jonah got up and he rebelled. So everything's going wrong from verse three on. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:42

I agree. He's disobedient. He's disobedient, rebellious. We get that. Prideful. This was bad for Jonah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:48

We wish it went from three and jumped to four.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:52

Right? Do you think I'm saying this was good for Jonah? Jonah knew once they throw me off, I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:58

Yeah. He knew that. He didn't think there was a way waiting for him to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:02

He'd rather die than to go. What is that? That's still him in. Rebellion. Yes. So that's what I'm saying. It was nothing sacrificial about what he did.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:11

He was who was he being defined against?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:13

He'd rather die than go to preach the Nineveh. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:16

He wasn't being defined against these human beings. It has nothing to do with I don't go to the body. Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:22

I'd rather die. Why?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:23

Where'd you get that from?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:24

Than go to Nebula.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:26

And deal with them.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:27

Because he was not yet ready to ask the Lord for forgiveness. He wasn't ready.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:32

Show me, show me where he'd rather die. Right? That's a free stop. So he wasn't ready. That's true. Where? Where does it say he rather die than go to Nineveh? Where does it say that?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:42

He just said he he, if you threw him off the boat, he was gonna die.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:44

No, right. Because he knew that the storm, he's not thinking about Nineveh. He's like, this storm right here that's happening right now, if it needs to stop for you guys, you guys gotta throw me off. Understanding that this may be my death. Why did they have to throw him off?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:59

What makes you think them throwing him off? Because we have the story, you'd be like, Because that's what he said. He's saying it's me. Get rid of me. What I'm saying is, why didn't he do it? Why is he telling them to do it? Why didn't he do it as the man of God? Why didn't he show them the proper witness and repent? Because the word because the word probably came to him like that. That's why he told it to them. Because I'm quick. I'm saying the word came to him. There's nothing that says the word came to him. This is him talking. That's not the word of God. I thought it was a word of God. No, the only reason I believe it's a prophet.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:32

No, the only reason the only reason I believe it, I'm gonna tell you something. You know what I mean? You know why? You know why I believe that that was God? Because when they did it, it happened.

unknown 1:46:43

When they did what?

SPEAKER_06 1:46:43

When they threw them off the boat. Exactly. There were results. And they tried, they rebelled. They tried to do it. They tried to do it their own way. I'm lying. No, stop. They tried to listen, they tried to do it their own way. Listen, because of how they tried to do what their own way. They was like, we're not gonna throw you off. That's madness. They was like, we're gonna save everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:02

And Wallace, you think the Lord instructed Jonah to tell them, unknowing, to commit homicide.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:15

He said, When you throw me off, it's gonna stop. When they threw him off, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:20

He already drew straws. I'm the cause of it. Yes. Right? And instead of him getting on his knees and repenting, he shifted the responsibility of doing something on them. I think it was too late.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:31

I think the Lord is like, you're gonna go to the sea and now you're gonna have to do three days in the city. It's too late. I gave you that.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:38

Disobedience.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:38

I get yeah, I gave you the disobedience. There's a consequence for your disobedience. Or you want to disobey, I'm gonna throw the storm at you. Now he's in the storm, he's in the storm, he's sleeping. They wake him up, he's like, yo, bruh. The Lord is like, this is the consequence for your disobedience. You in the middle of the storm, and to save everybody else, now you gotta get thrown up. This is the this is the consequence, this is the fruits of disobedience, bruh. That's what I'm trying to tell you. At this point, right here, Jonah understood. I gotta get thrown off this boat. And the reason why I say that, because the men disobeyed him. And it's and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:12

Of course they disobeyed him, because that's wrong. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:14

No, because exactly. And what and what commit murder? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:20

Of course. If they told him to come, why you think because they're right, you're right. Why you telling them? You're right. If somebody tell you to commit murder, disobey them. So why did they do it?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:28

Can I listen? Because now they're about to die. All right, and then what happened? When they did it, when they obeyed Jonah, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:35

The storm stopped.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:36

I don't I don't think that they would. I'm not I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:40

No, because the point that you're saying is that they had to do that. That's the point I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:46

Yes, they did. Because when they didn't, it didn't work. When they tried to go on dry land, it didn't work.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:50

Because look, you know what? Jonah had Jonah should have repented.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:57

No, I I look, look, listen. Jonah should have repented. That's the whole point. I I I agree with you. But the thing when you're saying that um that's committing homicide and that's wrong and all that, you can't even use that as a statement, right? Because um when we go, when you look at the gospel, right? They said, like when Caiaphas said, someone has to die in order for the nation. One man has to die for the nation. And he probably prophesy Yeah, he prophesied not even knowing that he was prophesying, and what? It was a it was a criminal act, it was homicide when they killed Jesus Christ. It was wrong. So you're saying this is the the typology. But this this is this is part of the typology that I've seen. I'm not gonna carry it to the F degree. That's why you're saying I'll carry it. I'll carry it for you. I won't carry it. I'll carry it.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:45

You know why? Because that's why Jesus uses Jonah the possibility.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:49

He says just as what?

SPEAKER_08 1:49:50

Just as what? Three days. All right, and how do we get this? Because look at one or another thing is I like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:57

He did not draw just to the belly of that whale for how many days?

SPEAKER_08 1:50:02

We needed to listen to God on Verse 3. One quick question. He says, Do not charge us. So wait a second. When the guy said, and do not charge us, when he prayed to God, with innocent blood, was he innocent? No. Jonah was not innocent.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:17

Exactly. They thought he was innocent. He was not innocent.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:20

That I was wicked and rebellious against God. And they said, Do not charge us with innocent blood. And who's innocent? Christ. So this is why I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:30

Yo, yo, yo, that's yo, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:32

So this is why I'm telling you, this is the typology that he's using here. I didn't even see how the typology went to that. And given it to the hands of men, and then he was thrown off. So this is where I'm seeing the typology. So you're saying And he doesn't even know he's acting it out. The same way where we see Genesis 22 with Abraham and Isaac.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:50

All these things are typologies. We understand the typology now. We understand the typology. But right then and there. Right then and there.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:59

I agree with you. He should have.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:01

I think that wasn't, I agree. That wasn't the word salvation plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:05

I understand that's not how the story goes. No, I believe he should have, but I think it's too late. You're not reading the story. You're not reading the story like, oh, this is what we should do. This is what we shouldn't do. We shouldn't be verse 3. But Jonah go up and flip. I agree. Nobody disagree. You shouldn't do that part. Nobody disagree. So now, as you're reading the story, you're seeing the Lord dealing and interacting with mankind to do something. What is he trying to do? Listen, you're the prophet. Dog, I I chose you for a particular reason, and you're going to do it, regardless of what. You decided to rebel in verse 3. We're going to go through as many verses as you want to go until you fall in line. That's what it is. Listen, I understand the story, but dog, what does the Lord want from us? He wants obedience.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:01

You're 100% right. But all we're saying is that there comes to a point where your disobedience, the Lord has to correct it.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:10

Right? And the Lord needed Well, the Lord doesn't need anything, but in this situation, he had to go to a deeper level, which was in the belly of the whale. To get to the place where he would have that full.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:24

Because he was still disobedient, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:26

Yes. But but what I'm saying, there's a lot of people. Why don't you think that was a disobedience to the thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:30

So why didn't he? He should have, yo, when the storm came, when the Lord threw the wind, dog, that wasn't enough for you to be like, oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:37

Nah, he was sleeping through that. Yeah, you're sleeping. And why couldn't that have been a moment of faith?

SPEAKER_03 1:52:42

All we're saying, all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:43

No, I understand. But you're saying the same thing I'm saying. No, I understand. The Lord is trying to bring him to what? Be careful with the guns. You know what I'm saying? The Lord is trying to bring him to what? Obedience. Fully loaded. Obedience. I think we listen to people. Don't get into the belly of the well. Don't get to that point. If the wind comes, dog, turn around. No, no, that's what you tell the people.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:06

But we're talking about something that already happened. All of us. Listen, we all got hearts at Jonah.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:11

Why couldn't that have been a moment of faith?

unknown 1:53:13

What moment?

SPEAKER_06 1:53:14

Where he's like, yo, the Lord is like, alright, you gotta throw me. And he's like, yo, I could die. But at this point, you know what? I confess. I messed up. That's why we're here. Right. That confession came where he was like, I know exactly why we're here. This is a storm because of my disobedience. And the Lord was like, Alright, now tell him to throw you off the ship. And in your mind, you like what?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:34

I'm telling you that.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:35

Because man has a responsibility. Yo, son. Those individuals we have a responsibility when the Lord calls us to react, to respond, and to believe it. To sacrifice yourself. Those dudes for the people on the ship. Those dudes have to be able to do that. Of course he sacrificed the dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:49

The Lord said, yo, make these guys throw you off the ship. He probably was like, yo, that's madness, but I'm going to be obedient now. All right. This was his first level of obedience. This was his first step of obedience. And it was crazy. And he was like, you know what? I'm going to have faith. You're saying is closing. Just like the three sons. You know what? Y'all gonna throw me into the furnace. Even if y'all don't save me, I'm still gonna, I'm still gonna. You can't why it couldn't have been there. Yo, show me where it could be why it couldn't have been there. Show me why I could show me in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:18

Don't give the wrong impression about the story. What's the point of the story?

SPEAKER_06 1:54:22

Nobody when people got saved.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:24

No, no. What's the point of the story? What you're saying is disobedient. Okay, so what is the Lord trying to do?

SPEAKER_03 1:54:30

The Lord is trying to get him to repent. Why not after the storm when he confessed? That was the first that was the first level. But did the Lord get him to repent? Yeah. When? Yes. When? When it was God's perfect timing for him to repent.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:43

Why did it why did it have to get that far?

SPEAKER_03 1:54:46

Because of us. Because we're rebellious. You said it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:49

Because we're rebellious. Okay. Listen, Marcus.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:51

We can't say that God missed an opportunity and he he should have repented on the boat. So God knew what was going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:59

The impression I'm getting from you guys is when he was on that ship and he told them to throw them off. You're saying that God told him to tell him that. You're saying that it was a sacrifice. I believe it was a confession. It was he he confessed, but he didn't repent. I see.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:13

I see your point. But all this Because it always happens confession first and then repentance. That's how it happens. And then he repented, he repented later. But he confessed at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:24

And he listened you gotta confess. He understood that. So that's what I'm saying. Right. That act of him telling them to throw him, that was nothing noble. Okay, that's why. Why not? Why not? That's what you do. Because he should have repented. We get that.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:38

We know what we should. We should have done better too. Yeah, but listen, you can't we get your point of view. Right. We think you think a different way.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:46

That's usually a different thing. No, that's that's yo, you get it's off. You usually say you think he's wrong. Nah, baby, don't be switching up. You usually say you think he's wrong. You do got more grace than we see dealing with him. I'm saying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:01

I understand his weaknesses. But the Lord is just showing me his weaknesses, so I'm trying to work with him.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:10

Yeah, but you sleeping right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:15

At the end of the day, bro, people got saved.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:18

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:19

And like I was saying earlier, bro, the Lord is gonna save. It don't matter if you're disobedient to him, the Lord's gonna save people. And that's the part I love here. I love the mercy, the compassion that the that those dudes showed him by not initially saying, all right, that's what we gotta do. Let's throw it. No, they tried their best to still get to land. So I see compassion on their end, but then I also see compassion on the Lord. You know? Mercy. All those dudes could have died. The Lord could have not stopped the sea from raging, but he did. And those people came to know the goodness of God because of it, and I love that part. When did the sea stop raging after they dumped it?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:56

Despite Jonah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:58

Despite Jonah. Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say on Jonah. I agree. Despite him.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:02

The Lord took the opportunity and saved those people.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:05

Exactly. The Lord gets all the glory. Yes. And that's it.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:08

He always gets all the glory. And even in his continual disobedience, God is still showing him grace. And giving him more opportunity to repent. Even though he wasn't repenting. Yep. He's like, I'm a I'm gonna show you grace because that's I'm a merciful, gracious God. Exactly. Yep. He walked them down. He walked them down, B.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:25

This is all mercy, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:27

God's compassion.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:28

The only reason I'm saying that is because he does it with me all the time, bro. Like step by step. He's like, yo, I'm gonna meet you where you at. This is where you at right now. All right, all right, yo. And like you said, by the time I you get to the point where you like, yo, I could have did this from the very jump. He's like, yeah, that was always the plan, but you're rebellious. So I'm gonna walk you down. I'm gonna walk you down, I'm gonna make you do this, I'm gonna make you do that, I'm gonna make you do this. And I'm like, well, I even have to do all of that. He's like, yeah, but this is what you needed to get to this point. So I'm gonna walk you down. And that's the only reason I understand where he's at at this point. That's why I say you're looking, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you. Of course, he should have re should have never even been there. That's the that's the that's the main goal. Like you said, three. Three should have never happened. If he said arise, go to Nineveh, that should have been it. It should have been done. Preach the word, everybody gets saved. But he's like, fam, you're rebellious. So I'm gonna walk you down, and I'm gonna walk you down all the way to the point where you're in the belly of a fish. I'll walk you all the way down there because that's what you need, Jonah. That's it. That was something personal for him. That's why I told you, that's why I gave you the um the instance with Peter and John. That's why he was like, What about John? The Lord was like, Don't worry about him. I'm talking to you. That's how we gotta walk this life. You understand what I'm saying? It'll be salvation is personal. It's something that you gotta work out with the Lord. Yeah, we're a body, yeah, we're a church, but uh, yo, everybody, he's gonna make you, he's gonna make you do something where he's gonna be like, yo, Marcus, do that. And I'm like, yo, Mark, why did you do that? That's what the Lord put on my heart to do. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not gonna be convicted to do that. You understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:59:04

That's why I understand it might have sounded you trying to say that the Lord put the conviction on his heart to tell. I'm talking about the people telling them to he's him telling them to do that. Yes, yes, I believe you're saying the Lord put that under his heart.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:15

I believe he understood that the only way this storm is gonna stop, because that's all they were worried about. That's not what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:21

Just listen to what I'm saying. That's all y'all had that understanding because they straws he was he was the culprit.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:27

He was dealing with the problem at hand. Understanding that a well, uh not a well, but a fish is gonna come in. He didn't have all of that. But he understood this where we're at right now, the storm is raging. We're talking, we're going back and forth. He's like, the only way he's gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:42

And the only reason I believe I'm disagreeing with you on the problem. I'm discussing the solution. The solution. No. You're saying so you're saying the solution was for them to throw him off the boat. Yeah. I'm saying the solution shouldn't have been that it didn't happen. I agree, it shouldn't have been that. But that was-be him repenting. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:59

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:00

But at this point, I believe that's where he was at. Scripture doesn't give us a second solution, right? Right. It gives us one solution.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:08

Scriptures teach you with applications.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:11

Listen, we're reading these so we can learn what to do and what not to do. See, but this is what I I don't necessarily agree with that. What? Because I feel like in scripture, it's full of men committing error against God, and I focus more on what God does than what the person does. And this is what this story is. And this is it's about God's mercy and God's grace when he uses imperfect people. I totally agree. I think throwing them off the ship was grace. But you you keep coming up with what he needs to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:36

What do you say? Why you think is grace?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:38

Because it saved those, those uh uh people on the ship. Because again, it was about Jonah, like you gotta understand, and that this is what Angie's stressing so much. People got saved. And the Lord, the whole thing is about salvation. He's like, my goal is for everybody to be saved. And I think Jonah under Jonah understood the only way for this storm to stop is by throwing me off the ship. Now, let's just listen. I'm gonna tell you, because I'm going through what the word is saying. Yeah, they rebelled against that. They were like, nah, that they believe what you believe. Just listen, just listen. They believe there's something you say I don't agree with. Just just let me finish and then you can rebuttal. They believe what you believe. That's homicide. This guy is innocent. We're not gonna throw him off the ship. That's crazy. We're gonna do our own, we're gonna do it in our strength. Roll, roll, roll your boat gently down the streams. And the storm raged even more. And that's when they licked, they was like, yo, B, we have to be obedient to this God. His prophet is here, his prophet told us to throw us off the ship. Yo, Lord, you know what? This is innocent, bro. This is innocent blood. This is innocent blood. Threw him off the ship. And as soon as they threw him off the ship, what happened? Yo, Marcus, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:50

So your Marcus, what you're saying, you're saying you're saying that what you say what the word says. No, no, no. You're saying what Jonah told them was a word from God to throw them off the ship. I believe that. I don't agree with that. Because it happened.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:03

After he after they after they were obedient, no, it happened. Don't say that.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:08

All right, listen, listen. We we could we could take that L. Yeah, we'll take that. Listen, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. We gotta compete.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:14

No, no, no, no, no. Listen, we gotta clear this up. We gotta clear this up. Listen, let the people clear it up when they read the No no no Clive. Clive it up in the comments, clear it up in the comments. I'm trying to make it quick. Because Jonah's a prophet, that doesn't mean everything that came out of his mouth was the word of God, was from the word of God. We can't.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:34

So that was his own. So at what point wasn't from the word of God? That was his own will? When he was on the ship. At what point? What did he say on that ship that wasn't from the word of will?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:41

And go to Nineveh. Now this is the message from the Lord. Now this message, now this message from the Lord came to Ametia, son of Jonah. Right. So we know what the message that the Lord gave him. We know the commission. We know what exactly what the Lord told him to do. So now what I'm saying, not every word that comes out of a prophet's mouth is from the Lord. Is that what we're saying?

SPEAKER_06 2:03:07

At what point? Where? In there. Is that what we're saying? Is that what we're saying?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:12

Every word that a prophet that we read that a prophet says in the in the book is from the words of the children. Okay, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:19

But how do you how do you prove that this is not? Yeah, how do you prove at any point in that ship anything that he said was off? Everything he said was right. Nothing was off. When they questioned him, he said, I'm a Hebrew, he was truthful. Everything that came out of Jonah's mouth was correct. At what point was it?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:35

So yo, Market, you gotta tell me at what point was it wrong? Because it says the word of God. It was wrong when he told him to throw him off the ship. Why would we tell him to do that? That's wrong. So let me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:46

So that necessarily wasn't God's truth. Let me do it. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, let me I I don't was that the word of the Lord coming to him and telling him that? No. That's what he's saying. But as a as a man of God, right, Mike can go to the corner and sit and preach, right? Something that's what I that he that he learned, something that he read, something he's filled with the spirit. Right, that's what I mean. That doesn't necessarily mean it was God speaking at that point. Right. And the reason why you're correct here is because at the beginning of chapter three, it says, now the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time. Right? So but but we're not that's that's not the L that we're that we're uh worried about. I'm saying at what point wasn't he truthful? We have to. That's what I'm saying. It was still a man of God's. Yeah, everything he said was truthful. Okay, I understand. It wasn't the word of God coming.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:34

What I'm saying is that I'm dealing with this particular segment of him being telling them to throw him off the ship. That wasn't truthful. We disagree on that. Because you guys probably see it as this sacrificial act. I don't see it that way.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:51

Okay, but that's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:52

My point is, after we hit verse three, this guy is in total rebellion with God. We get it. No, I don't I don't know. So that's why when you say when he's saying you'll throw me off the ship, I'm like, whoa, that's wrong.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:04

No, but my thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:05

And I don't believe that's that's something from the Lord is telling him to tell them to say that so that some typology can be a good thing. Okay, so let me, I'll take back.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:12

I'll take I'll take back. I'll agree with you. Let's say, okay, I'll agree with you that it wasn't a sacrificial act. It wasn't from a place of yo to such and such. But my thing is, from when Jonah opens his mouth, there's nothing that leading up to that point, there's nothing that he said that's not truthful. Everything he said, when they questioned him, like like Ann said, when they questioned him, he could have nah, it's not me. Everything he yo, he conf, yo, as soon as they questioned him, they was like, Where you from? That's why I said they gave you, they gave him the full interrogation. He answered everything correctly. When then when they cast, then when they said, yo, what what do we do to get off? I believe everything that he said was truthful. It was it coming from a place of sacrificial? Okay, I agree with you. Maybe he was still in that point of him. But but that don't mean him getting thrown off the ship wasn't truthful.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:00

The facts of who he is, the facts of who his God is. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, it's truth. Yeah. That doesn't mean him telling them to throw him off the boat is right. Just because the stuff that he's saying is true. Yeah, I'm a Hebrew. Yeah, the Lord told me to do this, don't do that. Just because those things are true, that doesn't mean what he told him to do is right.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:19

That's that was God's will. What was God's will for his life at that moment? Why are you saying for him to come to full repentance, he needed to be thrown off that boat. He needed not to go to verse 3.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:32

Let's deal with that. Stop saying that. That's what I'm saying. Let's wrap it up. Stop saying he needed to do that. You got it, you got it. Ding, ding, ding, ding.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:40

The day before you gave your heart to the Lord, you needed to go through everything that you did to get to the point where you were like, damn, I believe in you now, Lord. You needed that. I don't think you needed it. Why? Because you got to a point in your life where you believed. There was points in your life where you did things didn't happen to you where you didn't believe, where you didn't need God. Right? You weren't, you know, asking for him, you weren't asking questions. All I'm saying is all of our walks are different. We have to get to certain points in our lives where we cry out to the Lord for repentance. And for whatever reason, his point was being in the belly of a whale.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:16

You know what's crazy? We had this argument before.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:18

We always do. And you don't listen. With this no, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:22

It's this it's this idea of things needing to happen or this had to happen. Perfect will, permissive will. Yeah. What would the perfect will be? You, what you said, what you said from three, he listened and went to Nineveh. Yeah. That would have been the perfect will.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:38

I agree. And the permissive will is throw me off the ship so I could go in the belly of the will and repent.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:43

But then the Bible would be one page. I wish it was one page. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:48

I wish it was, yo, eat this fruit. Hell's no, get out of my face. Listen, the Lord will. Then it ended there. We would have been, we wouldn't have been having this Bible stuff, right? You're hundred percent right.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:59

Next person would have sinned. But the Lord, the Lord wills that no one should perish.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:03

See how you try to remix? No, no, it had to happen like that. I believe it had to happen like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:07

How about that?

SPEAKER_00 2:08:09

That's another topic.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:10

Alright, listen, close a prayer, bro.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:11

We've been talking too long, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:13

My voice is out.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:16

Alright. You got it, bro? Alright.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:18

Heavenly Father.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:19

You guys make me talk too much over this.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:20

We thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:21

Uh, we want another long break after this.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:24

We need it. Lord God, you overhear our conversations. You overhear our discussions, our disputes, Lord God, our rebuttals, our refutations, Lord God. But we know you are truthful. You are perfect, you are holy, you are righteous, you are just, and you know all. You are above all, you are king of all. And we thank you that we can have these discussions, Lord God, knowing that we are in you and you in us, Lord God. And we thank you, and we know that all this will be hashed out on the other side. Lord God, we meet you face to face, Lord God. And this is what we wait for. This is our blessed hope. Lord God, we also want to pray that everyone who listens to this, Lord God, that they may go and dig into the scriptures, Lord God, and figure out these answers by themselves as bereans should, Lord God, and dig and pray and search your word and pray to you and look for answers from you and you directly, Lord God. We pray for all those that are listening, that you soften their hearts, soften their minds, Lord God, and open their hearts to be saved by you. Lord God, we pray that none of us have a rebellious spirit or rebellious heart like Jonah did, Lord God. And we pray that all those listening, Lord God, take this into account that pride and rebellion are all things against you, but humility and love and just uh mercy and grace comes from you and you alone. And Lord God, we thank you that we're able to discuss this, and we pray for all those listening, Lord God, and we pray for the next time we meet up that it could be fruitful and it could be a blessing, and you can reveal just more unto us and to all those listening. And we thank you in the mighty name of your son Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:56

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:00

You know what danger is saying that's first episode. You know the danger saying you need it to be this way? Somebody's gonna turn out and say all this.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:15

I'm talking about what needs to happen for salvation. Salvation plan. Getting some things to happen in your life to get you to the point where you where you get out of your knees.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:27

That's why I don't believe those things happen based on who we are. So the Lord I'm trying to press the stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:39

I'm talking about my thing is is salvation. You know what I'm saying is people going to hell the Lord wills that nun should perish, right? So He doesn't need people to go to hell.